GS, for the record, where do you rank Dirk?

Between 20 & 50 all time

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Its reasonable to put him in the 13-20 range with the chance to move up or down. Not just Mavs fan bias. Saying Dirk isn't an NBA Legend at this point is a complete troll that doesn't deserve a response.

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So if Dirk's a top 13-20 player of all time, you're saying that he's better than the following

Karl Malone, Moses Malone, John Havlichek, Julius Erving Bob Cousy, John Stockton, Oscar Robinson, among others (not to mention current players like Durant, Lebron, and Kobe, to which Dirk isn't in the same league)...the fact that you can say that with such definitive distain for the all-time greats of the NBA shows your maverick homerism at it's finest...or worst.

Do you rank him above or below Karl Malone? And if rank him below, you'll have to explain why he has a ring and Malone doesn't. We all know when it comes to legacies, having a championship makes a hell of a difference. Just ask Dan Marino.

And don't give me the "Malone played against the Michael Jordan Bulls" crap. Dirk beat the dream team of James, Wade and Bosh.

John Havlichek. Now that is a name you hardly hear, but should. I was a Buck fan when they had Kareem. Havlichek would give us fits.

Kudos to prepy on that one.

However, Dirk > Karl Malone.

I think LeBron has already passed Dirk.

3 MVPs (one of 7 players ever) > 1 MVP
Finals MVP = Finals MVP
Championship = Championship
Scoring title > no scoring title
6 All-NBA First Teams > 4 All-NBA First Teams
4 All-Defensive 1st teams > 0 All-Defensive Selections

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I think LeBron has already passed Dirk.

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In stats but not in class. The class of Dirk will add to his legacy.

Who doesn't like Dirk? Other than maybe some Spur's homers?

21 pages of he-she troll and idiot Spurs homers policing Dirk opinions on a Mavs thread where we just wanted to discuss our roster shakeup.

Just another day on trolls other.

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We all know when it comes to legacies, having a championship makes a hell of a difference. Just ask Dan Marino.

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But if you talk to actual NFL players, they all rank Marino up there with the best. Team sport.

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Do you rank him above or below Karl Malone? And if rank him below, you'll have to explain why he has a ring and Malone doesn't.

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Arguments can be made both ways. I freakin hate Karl Malone, but he was a better scorer and rebounder than Dirk.

Karl has 2 MVPs (both were shams and he didn't deserve either one, BTW)
#2 all-time leading scorer after Kareem
4x All-Defensive Team vs 0 for Dirk
11x All-NBA First Team vs 4x for Dirk
Karl ranks 2nd in points scored (has 50% more than Dirk has), 6th in rebounds (42% more than Dirk has), 10th in steals (more than double what Dirk has), 1st in FTs, 12th in PPG (ahead of Dirk), 14th in PER (ahead of Dirk) and had 4 seasons of scoring higher than Dirk's career high.

But Dirk's team won the title. It all comes down to how much weight you put on the team accomplishment of winning a title.

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The class of Dirk will add to his legacy.

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WTF?

You can't be serious.

Robinson's class has really gotten his legacy way above Jordan, Magic and Wilt. Jordan is by pretty much every account a first-class *******. Magic ****ed so many people that he doesn't even know who gave him HIV.

You Mav fans can't be that delusional.

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But if you talk to actual NFL players, they all rank Marino up there with the best. Team sport.

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Talk about delusional. This is why Marino is not compared to the likes of Montana, Aikman, Elway, etc. when discussing the best quarterbacks ever.

And it is this reason that Malone will not be considered as good as Dirk.

I was a Marino fan. Even my cousin, a huge Dolphin fan, would tell you the same thing.

But keep on with your prepy-like Mavs dementia. It's good to know we are in your head.

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But if you talk to actual NFL players, they all rank Marino up there with the best. Team sport.

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Talk about delusional. This is why Marino is not compared to the likes of Montana, Aikman, Elway, etc. when discussing the best quarterbacks ever.

And it is this reason that Malone will not be considered as good as Dirk.

I was a Marino fan. Even my cousin, a huge Dolphin fan, would tell you the same thing.

But keep on with your prepy-like Mavs dementia. It's good to know we are in your head.

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The guy who said Dirk's legacy will be bolstered because he is classy just called someone else delusional.

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Do you rank him above or below Karl Malone? And if rank him below, you'll have to explain why he has a ring and Malone doesn't. We all know when it comes to legacies, having a championship makes a hell of a difference. Just ask Dan Marino.

And don't give me the "Malone played against the Michael Jordan Bulls" crap. Dirk beat the dream team of James, Wade and Bosh.

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I don't subscribe to the arguement that "a ring is the end all be all" in terms of legacy. Malone was by far the better player...just look at his numbers that Guitar provided. But I guess it's Dirk's "class" that sets him apart right? Classic...and I never said I didn't like Dirk once...I'm just not going around calling him an NBA legend like maverick fans. See ya'll can differentiate between the 2, either he's a legend or you hate him...there's no in between in your mind.

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In stats but not in class. The class of Dirk will add to his legacy.

Who doesn't like Dirk? Other than maybe some Spur's homers?

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Oh, so before it was all offense and defense wasn't mentioned...now that you have a player (Lebron) that has all of the above AND defensive, it's Dirk's "class" that sets him apart? Give me a break...Lebron is already better than Dirk in legacy, stats, potential, talent, etc...

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Talk about delusional. This is why Marino is not compared to the likes of Montana, Aikman, Elway, etc. when discussing the best quarterbacks ever.

And it is this reason that Malone will not be considered as good as Dirk.

I was a Marino fan. Even my cousin, a huge Dolphin fan, would tell you the same thing.

But keep on with your prepy-like Mavs dementia. It's good to know we are in your head.

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I'm not sure what conversations you have, but every conversation about Qb's of all time always has Marino in it. Give me a break. You're really reaching now.

just to make sure the ledger reads correctly on Karl Baloney








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bM-Y4UoiAY

Seriously. Eff that dude.

So that replaces his career accomplishments below?

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Karl has 2 MVPs (both were shams and he didn't deserve either one, BTW)
#2 all-time leading scorer after Kareem
4x All-Defensive Team vs 0 for Dirk
11x All-NBA First Team vs 4x for Dirk
Karl ranks 2nd in points scored (has 50% more than Dirk has), 6th in rebounds (42% more than Dirk has), 10th in steals (more than double what Dirk has), 1st in FTs, 12th in PPG (ahead of Dirk), 14th in PER (ahead of Dirk) and had 4 seasons of scoring higher than Dirk's career high.

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I guess you also take away Jordan's accomplishments becuase he cheated on his wife and had/has a gambling problem too right? Or Kobe's accomplishments becuase of his Colorado situation.

I just want to make sure history remembers that Karl Malone was one of the sports world's all time *******s. Nothing more; nothing less.

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I just want to make sure history remembers that Karl Malone was one of the sports world's all time *******s. Nothing more; nothing less.

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Cosign. Let's not forget that Karl Malone knocked up a 13-year old when he was 20, then refused to have anything to do with her or his son. His son plays for the Eagles.

Karl also did the same thing with his daughter Cheryl Ford, who plays in the WNBA. He refused contact with her until she was about to be drafted into the WNBA. Karl has a third child he fathered out of wedlock that he doesn't have a relationship with and isn't involved in pro sports.

Karl Malone is a terrible person.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 8/1/2012 10:08a).]

And I'll add that Nowitzki gets bonus points because the 2000-2001 Mavs took a dump on the 2nd seed Jazz that year and then sent them on the downward spiral that culminated in 3 first round exits in a row thanks to the Chris Webber buzzsaw and Baloney having to ditch his 18 year career in Utah to dickchase a ring in LA alongside Shaq and Kobe.

Sidenote: Chris Webber had the best shoes not named the Jordan XI in these bad boys

Maybe because it was when I was a kid, but my favorites were the Jordan IV-VII. I still wear a pair of the VII when I shoot around.

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The guy who said Dirk's legacy will be bolstered because he is classy just called someone else delusional.

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Says the genius who called Cunningham the steal of the draft and said he would start on the Spurs, and also said the Spurs had vastly more talent than the Mavs. Yet Cunningham may not even make the Mav rotation.

in 2010, nike did a redux of the XI in gray



pretty much a perfect bball shoe, to me.

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Cosign. Let's not forget that Karl Malone knocked up a 13-year old when he was 20, then refused to have anything to do with her or his son. His son plays for the Eagles.

Karl also did the same thing with his daughter Cheryl Ford, who plays in the WNBA. He refused contact with her until she was about to be drafted into the WNBA. Karl has a third child he fathered out of wedlock that he doesn't have a relationship with and isn't involved in pro sports.

Karl Malone is a terrible person.

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But... but... class has nothing to do with a person's legacy.

You crack me up dude.

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Says the genius who called Cunningham the steal of the draft and said he would start on the Spurs, and also said the Spurs had vastly more talent than the Mavs. Yet Cunningham may not even make the Mav rotation.

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Where did I say he would start for the Spurs?

I guess if you are exposed as an idiot, you can always make up **** and argue against it.

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But... but... class has nothing to do with a person's legacy.

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It doesn't seem to have anything to do with where a player is ranked all time.

Jordan is pretty much a piece of **** and Robinson donated millions to start a school for poor kids and paid full scholarships for hundreds of kids to go to college.

How has that affected each of their rankings as all-time greats? No one cares.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 8/1/2012 10:37a).]

I was never a fan of the XI. I thought they looked like he was wearing spats.

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the 2000-2001 Mavs took a dump on the 2nd seed Jazz that year and then sent them on the downward spiral that culminated in 3 first round exits in a row

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Very true. Watching Najera get under Malone's skin was greatness.

Yet another reason Dirk > Malone

[This message has been edited by AgBeliever (edited 8/1/2012 10:36a).]

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Where did I say he would start for the Spurs?

I guess if you are exposed as an idiot, you can always make up **** and argue against it.

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And I guess if you're a liar you can always deny how you said a 35% shooter in college would be a 38% shooter in the NBA under Pop's system and start at the 2 for the Spurs.

Find the quote where I said that Cunningham would start for the Spurs.

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a 35% shooter in college would be a 38% shooter in the NBA under Pop's system and start at the 2 for the Spurs

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Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter at SD State. He hit 38% last year for the Spurs.

You are the Mavs version of Prepy.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 8/1/2012 10:42a).]

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. Watching Najera get under Malone's skin was greatness.

Yet another reason Dirk > Malone

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a scrappy defender frustrating Malone is a reason that Dirk is better? Have you never watched the Mavs before?

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You are the Mavs version of Prepy.

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And you are the prepy version of prepy.

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a scrappy defender frustrating Malone is a reason that Dirk is better? Have you never watched the Mavs before?

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And when did a role player ever cause Dirk to have a meltdown like Malone did when he played Najera?

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Guitarsoup
posted 6:45a, 08/01/12



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My list has the simplest criteria without bias

If you think that, you are insane. You specifically chose it because Dirk fit into it and you specifically exclude defense because Dirk sucks at it while pretty much all of the all-time greats don't. You wanted to prove a point, so you chose the criteria that would fit it. The very definition of bias.

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And you are double-counting defense just so you can remove Dirk from the list, and don't care if Magic is removed as a consequence. In fact, Durant will likely never make your list of all-time greats either. Or if you look at your second list that only asks for 5 years of longevity then Durant could conceivably make the list at age 25.

The best way to avoid bias is to strip down the parameters to make it as simple as possible while still accounting for all stats - MVP and All-NBA

10 years is a solid, even common sense number to ensure that legendary players made the All-NBA teams before, during and after their primes and will likely be over age 30 by the time they hit the list.

As this thread flies by 700 replies you are continuing to throw **** against the wall looking for things to discredit the Mavs while we all laugh at you and prepyag for your obsessive hatred.

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I think LeBron has already passed Dirk.

3 MVPs (one of 7 players ever) > 1 MVP
Finals MVP = Finals MVP
Championship = Championship
Scoring title > no scoring title
6 All-NBA First Teams > 4 All-NBA First Teams
4 All-Defensive 1st teams > 0 All-Defensive Selections

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Hard to quantify Lebron's legacy when he's still ascending. He will most definitely pass Dirk soon. Why not wait until he hits 10 All-NBA teams and age 30 in 2 years to really start solidifying his legacy?

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Arguments can be made both ways. I freakin hate Karl Malone, but he was a better scorer and rebounder than Dirk.

Karl has 2 MVPs (both were shams and he didn't deserve either one, BTW)
#2 all-time leading scorer after Kareem
4x All-Defensive Team vs 0 for Dirk
11x All-NBA First Team vs 4x for Dirk
Karl ranks 2nd in points scored (has 50% more than Dirk has), 6th in rebounds (42% more than Dirk has), 10th in steals (more than double what Dirk has), 1st in FTs, 12th in PPG (ahead of Dirk), 14th in PER (ahead of Dirk) and had 4 seasons of scoring higher than Dirk's career high.

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No mention of playoffs stats, where Dirk compares much better. The title is the biggest factor for these 2 - Malone had multiple chances to seal his legacy with a title and failed miserably. Dirk also failed a couple times but finally broke through.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 8/1/2012 12:00p).]

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And when did a role player ever cause Dirk to have a meltdown like Malone did when he played Najera?

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Well, judging by the article below, looks like Stephen Jackson got to Dirk fairly well...or does that not count?

http://suite101.com/article/warriors-upset-mavericks-a20456

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Hard to quantify Lebron's legacy when he's still ascending. He will most definitely pass Dirk soon. Why not wait until he hits 10 All-NBA teams and age 30 in 2 years to really start solidifying his legacy?

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Because he's already better than Dirk based on his career up to this point...why wait for him to make it embarrassing to compare Dirk's career to his?

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No mention of playoffs stats, where Dirk compares much better. The title seals it - Malone had multiple chances to seal his legacy with a title and failed miserably.

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The title seals it? So Robery Horry is better than Michael Jordan? If title's seal player debates right?

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 8/1/2012 12:02p).]

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The title seals it? So Robery Horry is better than Michael Jordan? If title's seal player debates right?

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facepalm

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facepalm

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Yeah, I thought that'd shut you up and you'd have no response. To use titles, a team accomplishment, as the end all be all in determining an individual player's value is just short-sighted, but I guess coming from a mavs fan that should be expected.

double facepalm