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These people seem to disagree with your idiotic assessment, prepy.

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So le tme get this straight...DALLAS writers writing on a DALLAS BLOG think the DALLAS mavs made good moves and that's the end all be all? You might as well just asked Donnie Nelson or Mark Cuban if they think the moves were the right choices.

Like I said before, had any other team made the moves Dallas made all you mav fans would be saying injury prone and selfish Mayo is, how un-coordinated and washed up Kamen is, and how little and unproductive Collison is; but because they signed with Dallas "It's a great off season."

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So le tme get this straight...DALLAS writers writing on a DALLAS BLOG think the DALLAS mavs made good moves and that's the end all be all? You might as well just asked Donnie Nelson or Mark Cuban if they think the moves were the right choices.

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I'm not a Dallas fan, nor a Dallas writer. The Mavs made very good moves and upgraded multiple positions.

I don't think Dallas had a great offseason, but they had a very good off season. They got players that are upgrades without sacrificing next year's cap space. That is a win for them. To say otherwise is idiotic.

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If a team is playing well then felxibility is irrelevant...look at Miami. They're not felxible. Mavs fans are using "oh, but we're still flexible and be players later" as an excuse.

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Inflexibility worked for the Mavericks in 2011 as well. Inflexibility is fantastic so long as you are inflexible because you have one or two top 10 players in the league on your roster.

Inflexibility is not fantastic when you are inflexible because you have several aging max and near max players. Dallas is trying to plan for life after Dirk all while not wasting the couple of years left of Dirk as a force in the NBA. It's complicated in that Dallas has to stay flexible to acquire a player to get to Dallas into the post-Dirk phase, but they also have to stay competitive to surround Dirk with talent so as not to waste his ability and to make Dallas an attractive destination for FAs. As I said earlier in this thread, I think Deron Williams opted for the Nets because of the money, but also because Brooklyn was able to add pieces BEFORE signing him as where Dallas would have had to add pieces AFTER signing him. Dallas doesn't want that to happen again, so they are trying to get players on more than 1 year deals who might be able to support another star (i.e., Mayo).

Nobody thinks Kaman and Brand are answers to any question other than "Who can we get in here on one year deals that will keep Dallas competitive and would be upgrades over Haywood's contract and the contract Mahinmi was going to get?"

I wish Mayo the best for 78 games a year, but he is not an upgrade over Jason Terry.

He is a very solid player though, and his contract shows the difference between the old CBA and the current CBA.

prepy, in your opinion, did the Mavs get better or worse this offseason?

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Prepyag, will you stand by your prediction that the Nets will be one of the best teams in the East? How impressive is that Kris Humphries 24mm signing?

They'll be no worse than 4th-5th in the East, and going from a 22 win team to 4-5 seed is pretty legit. I guarantee they have a better record than the mavs. Their line up is already better.

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marked

Moving from 22 wins to a 4-5 seed is not legit if the 4-5 seed is their ceiling for the foreseeable future - see also the Joe Johnson Hawks. Unless you think it's a success for a team to be locked into the 4th seed or lower every year? Boston, Miami, Lakers, are all teams that added stars and instantly went straight to contending status. Not so much with the Nets.

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did the Mavs get better or worse this offseason?

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I think at best they stayed the same. Kaman is just trading bad offense for bad defense. Plus he really only had one good season offensively. Collison, while he has a different game than Kidd, is about the same caliber of player. OJ Mayo is not as good as Jason Terry. Dahntay Jones is not as good as Delonte West (although Delonte may still return). Brand is an obvious upgrade over some of the backups last year.

The Mavs should score more points, but they will likely allow more as well.

From Chad Ford:

I'll say this about the Mavs: They're resourceful. In just a few hours Wednesday afternoon, they landed Kaman on a very reasonable one-year, $8 million deal. Then they pulled off an inconceivable heist for Collison. On Friday, they won the bid for Brand off the amnesty waiver wire for a paltry $2.1 million. Suddenly, the team had a young starting point guard on a reasonable deal and a veteran center and power forward to go alongside Dirk Nowitzki and Shawn Marion.

I don't think the moves will put them back in contention, but they should be back in the playoffs and will enter next summer as the odds-on favorites to get Howard.

It's a one-year detour, but it might be a fairly scenic one for Mavs fans.

GRADE: B

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will enter next summer as the odds-on favorites to get Howard.

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How many times have we heard this? Deron Williams this year, Bosh a few years ago, and New Jersey until they swung the trade for Deron Williams. The reality is most max level players are moved in trades or sign-and-trade deals. If Dwight changes teams in the offseason, it will be via sign-and-trade to Brooklyn or the Lakers. Dallas doesn't have the assets to get a deal done, and Dwight would be fine with going to either LA or Brooklyn.

The only difference is we KNOW that Howard wants to go somewhere else. We had no clue whether Deron wanted to move or not.

Howard is a baby and if the Mav's can avoid him I would but he is a player and he has made it clear he won't sign w/ any of the teams he is either on or that have been rumored to get him. Houston should stay away.

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Moving from 22 wins to a 4-5 seed is not legit if the 4-5 seed is their ceiling for the foreseeable future - see also the Joe Johnson Hawks. Unless you think it's a success for a team to be locked into the 4th seed or lower every year? Boston, Miami, Lakers, are all teams that added stars and instantly went straight to contending status. Not so much with the Nets.

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Of the 3 teams you named, one is in the West so they're irrelevant in this conversation. One of the other 2 (miami) is the best team in the entire league...the Nets will be just as good, if not better than Boston. The Bulls are the only other team that I can say with confidence, can beat the nets in a series. A line up of Brook Lopez (17 and 8), Kris Humphries (2 straight years averaging a double double), Gerald Wallace (15 and 7, former all defensive team), Joe Johnson (19 ppg), and Deron Williams (one of the top 2-3 point guards in the game) as your starting 5 is legit...

Not to mention that Lopez is only scratching the surface at age 24, w/ Humphries, Wallace, and Williams all 29 or younger.

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 7/17/2012 2:37p).]

t - cam, I want Houston to get Dwight. We have a better chance at keeping him than getting him via free agency. I prefer tanking to being mediocre, but it is still not a good route to go either. At worst, we sign-and-trade Dwight next summer.

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Of the 3 teams you named, one is in the West so they're irrelevant in this conversation. One of the other 2 (miami) is the best team in the entire league...the Nets will be just as good, if not better than Boston. The Bulls are the only other team that I can say with confidence, can beat the nets in a series. A line up of Brook Lopez (17 and 8), Kris Humphries (2 straight years averaging a double double), Gerald Wallace (15 and 7, former all defensive team), Joe Johnson (19 ppg), and Deron Williams (one of the top 2-3 point guards in the game) as your starting 5 is legit...

Not to mention that Lopez is only scratching the surface at age 24, w/ Humphries, Wallace, and Williams all 29 or younger.

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Surprise! My point flew over prepyag's head.

Prepyag says it's a legit start for the Nets to attain the 4 seed in year 1. That implies that they're building something long term. 2 of their 3 best players are past their primes and getting worse. Joe Johnson is about to go from a top 30 player to a top 100 player as he hits the Finley Wall. Wallace has injury issues and has always relied on extreme athleticism - not good for a 30 year old in his 12th year. Humphries and Lopez are classic empty numbers/bad team stiffs with horrible contracts.

The Lakers, Celtics and Heat all added star players and contended instantly - elite veteran teams don't need years to gel. The Nets have a 2 year window with a 2nd round ceiling.

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Surprise! My point flew over prepyag's head.

Prepyag says it's a legit start for the Nets to attain the 4 seed in year 1. That implies that they're building something long term. 2 of their 3 best players are past their primes and getting worse. Joe Johnson is about to go from a top 30 player to a top 100 player as he hits the Finley Wall. Wallace has injury issues and has always relied on extreme athleticism - not good for a 30 year old in his 12th year. Humphries and Lopez are classic empty numbers/bad team stiffs with horrible contracts.

The Lakers, Celtics and Heat all added star players and contended instantly - elite veteran teams don't need years to gel. The Nets have a 2 year window with a 2nd round ceiling.

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No your point was well taken, just not accurate. AGAIN, the Lakers are irrelevant as they're in the West so they don't have anything to do with the Nets seeding in the East. Miami is better than anyone else so them getting better is a wash.

I'm not sure how you can say 2 of the Nets stars are past there prime, then in the same post say Boston got better. 2 of their main stars are 2 if not 3 years past their prime and while Rondo is a stud, it was shown in the playoffs that he can't win a game alone. Terry isn't an upgrade over Allen, and it could be argued that it's a step back.

What win's in this league? Guard play, and the Nets have one of the best backcourts in the NBA with Williams and Joe Johnson. And you say empty stats? I'll take a 7 foot center whose only 24 years old averaging 17 and 7 all day and another under 30 PF that's good for a double double night in and night out. Only a mavs fan can champion signing Elton Brand and Chris Kamen, then bad mouth Brook Lopez and Kris Humphries.

The Mavs have had a damn good recovery from not being able to sign Deron. Collison for Mahinmi swap was thievery and the 2.1M for Brand is ridiculously sweet.

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No your point was well taken

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It wasn't

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AGAIN, the Lakers are irrelevant as they're in the West so they don't have anything to do with the Nets seeding in the East. Miami is better than anyone else so them getting better is a wash.

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Lakers added a star player in 2008 and contended instantly - conference doesn't matter.
Miami added a star player in 2010 and contended instantly - from a blank roster to a Finals team.
Boston added 2 star players in 2008 (but lost Jefferson) and contended instantly - Lottery to Finals
Nets added a star player in 2012 and... 5th seed?

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I'm not sure how you can say 2 of the Nets stars are past there prime, then in the same post say Boston got better. 2 of their main stars are 2 if not 3 years past their prime and while Rondo is a stud, it was shown in the playoffs that he can't win a game alone. Terry isn't an upgrade over Allen, and it could be argued that it's a step back.

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Boston peaked in year 1 and have slowly declined as the stars got older. Nothing contradictory at all. NJ will do the same, but their ceiling is the 2nd round. Boston's ceiling in 2008 was the Title.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 7/17/2012 4:23p).]

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Lakers added a star player in 2008 and contended instantly - conference doesn't matter.
Miami added a star player in 2010 and contended instantly - from a blank roster to a Finals team.
Boston added 2 star players in 2008 (but lost Jefferson) and contended instantly - Lottery to Finals
Nets added a star player in 2012 and... 5th seed?

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Oh, so that's where the disconnect was...you want to compare the Joe Johnson trade or the Deron Williams signing to Miami signing the best basketball player on the planet. yeah, that's an apples to apples comparision. what stretch...if your goal was to make the most ridiculous point to make me speechless you're succeeded...you're right, Joe Johnson won't be what Lebron James was to the Heat that's for sure.

And the conference does matter it terms of the Nets in the East

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Boston peaked in year 1 and have slowly declined as the stars got older. Nothing contradictory at all. NJ will do the same, but their ceiling is the 2nd round. Boston's ceiling in 2008 was the Title.

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Oh so now it's different? you just got done saying how Boston just got better, and now you're saying they already peaked? Which is it? You're reaching now bud. Look I get that you're butthurt that Williams stayed in Brooklyn, but that doesn't mean their team is bad...at worst the Nets are the 5th seed, at best in year 1 they're in the conference finals against the Heat...contrast that with the Mavs scrapping for the 8th seed and I'll take the Nets for 500 Alex...but that's me.

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Oh, so that's where the disconnect was...you want to compare the Joe Johnson trade or the Deron Williams signing to Miami signing the best basketball player on the planet. yeah, that's an apples to apples comparision. what stretch...

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I'm just using your logic

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And the conference does matter it terms of the Nets in the East

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How?

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Oh so now it's different? you just got done saying how Boston just got better

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They did get better in 2008 and contended instantly

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and now you're saying they already peaked?

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They did peak in 2008

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Which is it?

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Both

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You're reaching now bud.

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Am I?

Honestly, I think if anything, this mavs are better this year.

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Honestly, I think if anything, this mavs are better this year.

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you're not allowed to talk about the mavericks on this thread

Guy on ESPN: "It keeps their (Dallas') flexibility for sure. But pretending Kaman and Mayo are good players seems homerish to me."

OJ Mayo put up good numbers when he was a starter. He went to the sixth man role and his numbers dipped. That's just not a good role for some people. I don't know how he'll be used but if he can score like he did in his first two seasons he is a monster pickup at 4mm/year.

I was never high on Kaman but I'm inclined to say he's better than Haywood. This past season Haywood wasn't a great defender either.

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I'm just using your logic

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Please show me where I said The Nets getting Joe Johnson was equivalent to Miami getting Lebron. Don't worry, I'll wait.

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How?

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Because the Lakers were in a weaker west; the Nets have the best record in basketball in the Bulls and the NBA champion in the Heat. Not sure why that's not clear to you...I guess because it's against your opinion.

Regarding the Celtics...I'm unclear how you can not see that getting to all-star players in Ray Allen, the best 3-point shooter in NBA history, and Kevin Garnett, one of the better post players in the league at the time, is different than getting 1, let me repeat that, ONE player in Joe Johnson. You're loading your argument. I'm not sure you know this, but adding 2 superstars like the Heat and Celtics did is a bit different than adding one...it's simple math sir...

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Am I?

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Yes, you absolutely are.

If there's anything good that came out of this off-season it is that Chris Kaman's sense of humor is now in Dallas.

His interview yesterday with Bob & Dan was hilarious and bizarre.

Also, we get to hear all the Marion+Dirk+Kaman=ugliest front court in NBA history jokes.

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I'm just using your logic

Please show me where I said The Nets getting Joe Johnson was equivalent to Miami getting Lebron. Don't worry, I'll wait.

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You said it didn't matter that the Nets have an inflexible roster because Miami is also inflexible. Inflexibility implies the team has reached their ceiling with the main roster and just adds to the sub-role players to tweak it. You have been praising the Nets moves, and said they should expect a top 4-5 seed in year 1 which is legit in your opinion. That all implies that you expect them to contend with the Heat eventually. Or is it legit for a team to just reach te 5 seed every year? You always blast the Mavs moves because you say they won't lead to a title. If you're praising the Nets moves with with no issues that the roster is inflexible than you clearly must assume they are title contenders soon with the existing core.

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Because the Lakers were in a weaker west; the Nets have the best record in basketball in the Bulls and the NBA champion in the Heat. Not sure why that's not clear to you...I guess because it's against your opinion.

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The west wasn't weaker in 2008 and it still doesn't matter

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Regarding the Celtics...I'm unclear how you can not see that getting to all-star players in Ray Allen, the best 3-point shooter in NBA history, and Kevin Garnett, one of the better post players in the league at the time, is different than getting 1, let me repeat that, ONE player in Joe Johnson. You're loading your argument. I'm not sure you know this, but adding 2 superstars like the Heat and Celtics did is a bit different than adding one...it's simple math sir...

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Garnett for Jefferson was a wash if you look at the numbers. Or do you think Jefferson was just an empty numbers/bad team player? I'm just having fun with prepyag logic.

take it outside

LMAO, this guy.

Ok let me end this right here...the nets will be better than the mavs next season and for the foreseeable future. Use whatever logic you'd like, twist that however you want...the nets did more for their team and made themselves better, the mavs signed retreads and hand-me-downs after failing on their orginal plans A, B, and C.

based on Deron williams and Joe Johnson?

Carlisle will have a lot more flexibility with this team than he did last year.

With a pretty solid starting line-up of:
1. Collison
2. Mayo
3. Marion
4. Dirk
5. Kaman

You have the following vets that can play 2 positions: Brand (4,5), Da Jones (2,3) and Carter (2,3)

And you also have the young players that can play 2 positions: Roddy (1,2), Do Jones (1,2), Cunningham (1,2), Crowder (3,4) and James (4,5).

I hear the Mavs want to re-sign Delonte as well, who also can play the 1 or 2.

It will be interesting to see what Carlisle can do with a pretty deep team that has a nice blend of veterans and youth. Not a top 4 team obviously, but one that can compete for spots 5-8. I'd say we are on the same level as Memphis now. And we'll be in the sweepstakes for Howard and Paul next year.

[This message has been edited by AgBeliever (edited 7/18/2012 11:08a).]

Lol prepyag exposed by his own idiotic logic

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LMAO, this guy.

Ok let me end this right here...the nets will be better than the mavs next season and for the foreseeable future. Use whatever logic you'd like, twist that however you want...the nets did more for their team and made themselves better, the mavs signed retreads and hand-me-downs after failing on their orginal plans A, B, and C.

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Nets failed to assemble a contending roster by missing out on Howard and are now stuck with Deron and a bunch of horrible contracts. Both teams will finish at the 4-7 seeds, but only the Mavs have flexibility to build a contender.

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Lol prepyag exposed by his own idiotic logic

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Again, I asked you to please show where I said the Nets getting Joe Johnson was the same as the Heat getting LeBron...and you failed to do so...you can call it idiotic logic if you'd prefer, especially when you made it up.

I'll ask for a 2nd time...please show me where I made that claim?

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Nets failed to assemble a contending roster by missing out on Howard and are now stuck with Deron and a bunch of horrible contracts. Both teams will finish at the 4-7 seeds, but only the Mavs have flexibility to build a contender.

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Really? Because as far as I can see they've assembled one of the Top 3-4 rosters in the East with a top 3 point guard in the NBA, good low-post play w/ a 24 year old 7 foot center and 1 of only 5 guys in the entire NBA to average a double double for the past 2 years, and a coach that's already been to the finals.

Good luck w/ your flexibility...we saw how it worked out for the mavs this off-season didn't we? The trick is getting Big time players to want to play for the team...and the mavs the past 2 off season have shown that they can't (Bosh the year before and Williams this year...and they both have Dallas ties.)

Just because you haven't done it in the past doesn't mean you can't do it in the future. According to your logic, everyone but LA, NY and Miami should fold their franchises.

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Just because you haven't done it in the past doesn't mean you can't do it in the future. According to your logic, everyone but LA, NY and Miami should fold their franchises.

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Right you are...let's just say that the odds aren't in the mavs favor then.

So by Prep's own admission, the Mavs could be the fifth best team in the West and the Nets the fourth team in the East.

Wow. What a huge chasm there is between that. I'm so embarrassed I may have to move from DFW.