Sorry... He played in 200 more games but has 700 more steals. I think he is third all time in steals per ge at 2.17. Jordan was 2.37. He is in the top two for per ge for guys that played more than 1000 games.

That's impressive..... Considering John played more past his prime and kept up a high average.

[This message has been edited by Bbdp (edited 8/3/2012 6:31a).]

6th all-time, not third all-time.

Stockton also was fortunate enough to play in the golden age of steals before they changed the perimeter defense rules. That's why the single season steal record has stood for almost 20 years. Since 1995, no one has come within 75 steals of the single-season record for steals in a season.

And when placing a player in history, I think judging whether they could lead a team is an important factor. I think Stockton is a perfect point guard to have, but he isn't the superstar that will put your team on his back and carry them.

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I love how prepyags top 20 list only had 1 Malone listed. We've already seen him imply that Karl is the 2nd greatest of all-time since rings don't matter to him. And no one would leave Moses out of the top 20. So it's pretty obvious he doesn't realize there are 2 Malones in nba history.

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You're right, my mistake...just another player better than your beloved Dirk. Thank you for pointing that out.

Did Dirk kill your parents or something? Good Lord. He's your kryptonite...I see you with Dirk newspapers and pictures all over your wall with bullet holes and red X's all over them like something from Seven.

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He is in the top two for per game for guys that played more than 1000 games.

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I believe this to be accurate.

Looking at him in history, he leads two "major" statistical categories for all time numbers (and his averages per season are competitive with any in those two areas, 2nd in assist and 7th in steals (2nd for a player with 1000 games)).

Who else leads in two categories?
Heck; name players that are top 5 in two categories (career total or career average).

I get you started:
Wilt (scoring and rebounding), Jordan (scoring and steals) and Stockton (assist and steals).

He is also a top 50 scorer (total points) of all time , shot over 50% from the field and 38% from behind the arc. His scoring numbers would have been much if he had not played with Karel.

I could argue (I probably won't) that he should be in the upper list, but not putting him in the lower list is a major oversight IMO.

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Who else leads in two categories?
Heck; name players that are top 5 in two categories (career total or career average).

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Moses Malone, the guy prepyag never heard of until today, is top 5 in rebounding, free throws and MVPs

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His scoring numbers would have been much if he had not played with Karel

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doubtful. More likely his assists and steal numbers would have been way down without Karl's help.

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Moses Malone, the guy prepyag never heard of until today, is top 5 in rebounding, free throws and MVPs

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To me he's just another guy that refutes Dirk as an NBA legend...thanks for the help.

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More likely his assists and steal numbers would have been way down without Karl's help.

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I can buy the assists............ Steals? What did KM do that helped that stat?

Where is Dirk all time in FT%.... 3pt%?

He is a legendary shooter.

Same could be said for Nash.



[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 8/3/2012 11:55a).]

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More likely his assists and steal numbers would have been way down without Karl's help.

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I can buy the assists............ Steals? What did KM do that helped that stat?

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Just a general comment that having a solid interior defender (and someone that's a threat to throw an elbow at anyone that penetrates) allows the perimeter defenders to take more risks. Steals are a high risk/high reward stat. You can be a great perimeter defender without getting steals, and you can be a poor defender while still getting a lot of steals.

Did you watch JS? I don't remember him being a high risk defender... at all.

A lot don't like the way he played defense but that is another discussion.

Nothing against Stockton that's why I said it was just a general comment. Anytime you look steals (and blocks) you have to look past the basic numbers.

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I could argue (I probably won't) that he should be in the upper list, but not putting him in the lower list is a major oversight IMO.

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I don't think so. Look at the players on the two lists. All could lead a team as THE MAN. I don't think Stockton could. Stockton never finished above 7th in MVP voting. He was never a contender for the best player in the league.

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His scoring numbers would have been much if he had not played with Karel.

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I don't think they would have. He really didn't create his own shot. He hit open threes off double teams or open mid rangers off a pick and pop. Malone helped his scoring as much as he helped Malone's.

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I can buy the assists............ Steals? What did KM do that helped that stat?

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When you have a big guy like Duncan or Karl or Shaq defending the post, a guy like Stockton can often sneak in and steal off a crab dribble. Stockton didn't drop his man to play the passing lanes like Kidd or Iverson but he did a little of the Kirilenko "let the man pass and poke the ball out around his back" Maybe that was a Sloan thing. But it helps to know you can let your guy go into the lane when they are running into Mark Eaton and Karl Malone.

But note that Stockton never made 1st team All-Defense and only made 2nd team 4 times. Steals isn't really an indication of defensive ability, same as blocks. Garnett is considered one of the best defenders ever and he has 1.5bpg and 1.3spg for his career. Bowen averaged .8spg and .4bpg.

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Where is Dirk all time in FT%.... 3pt%?

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Dirk is 88th all time in 3-point FG%
Dirk is 13th all time in FT%

Where has this conversation gone. The original question was "Where do the Mavs go now?" But it has veered of to "Who are the top 20 players of all time?"

TexAgs at its finest, Jerry

Trying to get to 1000..... See above.

Dirk

Dirk= #1 player to ever play the game. They should make a statue saying " All hail the greatest player to ever play basketball"

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Everybody in this thread has a huge bias about where Dirk ranks all-time, both positively and negatively.


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I can't remember another NBA superstar having his personality transformed by an NBA title; if it happened with, say, Hakeem Olajuwon, I don't remember reading about it. Dirk's next few years will be interesting for historical purposes: In my basketball book, I ranked Bird, Duncan, Havlicek, Baylor, Erving, Pettit, Malone and Barkley as the greatest forwards of all time (in that order). Dirk already leapfrogged the last three; he's about to jump the next three; and if that happens, suddenly he's one of the best 12 or 13 players of all time by any calculation. He's also the greatest international basketball player ever — and actually, you could argue that the distance between Dirk and the next best foreign guy (Gasol, Ginobili) is more like a chasm.
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This is from March 2012.

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That was a great article.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2

Those with the Dirk-dementia can go pound sand.

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he's about to jump the next three; and if that happens, suddenly he's one of the best 12 or 13 players of all time by any calculation

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(Well, unless you count Steve Nash. And I don't. In my opinion, Canada is no less of a foreign country than Texas is. Seriously, who do you have more in common with — Canadians or Texans? I'd trade Texas for Canada in a heartbeat even if the Intercontinental Trade Machine keeps rejecting it.)

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Where do I sign?

The guy is a writer for the New York Times, so of course he is going to have ***** envy for us Texans.

At least he sees Dirk for what he is though. One of the best forwards to ever play the game.

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At least he sees Dirk for what he is though. One of the best forwards to ever play the game.

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Who doesn't see Dirk as that?

Uh, I don't know. Your annoying cohort in Mav trolling perhaps.

Diet coke head agrees that dirk is a great player.

sooo whats up

The bball other board is very quiet in August/September

EDIT: Dangit...wrong emotion...

[This message has been edited by fightinags2013 (edited 9/18/2012 2:44p).]