DIRTY JIM! DIRTY JIM! DIRTY JIM!
(should have been an All Star...FO Leyland)


GET ADAM SOME RIBS!

Rays sweep the ChiSox. Since returning from the DL, Price has pitched 16 innings, with 15 Ks and only one ER.

A half game separates 2nd from 4th in the East.

Insert "Hells comin' with me" here.

Also, Happy 4th Chowdah. Thanks so much for your service.

Gig'em!

i purposely didn't post in here until the yankees lost, but that loss yesterday was gut wrenching. Oh well, the yanks are back in biznass, but we'll see over the rest of the pre-all-star break

Token should be posting in here more often, then...


Rays win again, six in a row, ten of eleven. The rest of the East has hit a slump, and Tampa Bay is taking full advantage of it.

Britton.

how the **** are we losing to the royals? I went to the game on monday, sat through a 1 hour rain delay, only to have them lose to ****ing jeremy guthrie, who's terrible

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how the **** are we losing to the royals? I went to the game on monday, sat through a 1 hour rain delay, only to have them lose to ****ing jeremy guthrie, who's terrible

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Is it "we" again? You stopped that for a couple seasons. Guess you are the bat boy again?

Nice to see WYC and Noles get it going.

Die chowdah. Yankees win

Rays win in 13 innings to keep the streak alive and keep pace with the AL East's clean sweep of the day.

Sox win out west.

Ortiz sets a new hit record for the position that makes the AL the superior league. He'd better get in Cooperstown.

He did steroids. I thought steroid users were out of the hall. There's a reason his other nickname is the big syringe

I've literally never heard him called that.

Everyone (in Token's circle of friend) calls him that.

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(in Token's circle of friend)

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Friend singular!!! I like it!!!!!

I shouldn't mess with Token when he's not here to defend himself.

I have it on good authority that he's out at the drugstore buying hand lotion in anticipation of Jeter's return to the Yankee lineup.

just cleaned out duane reade of all the jergen's cocoa butter lotion

But, on the topic of Ortiz, I don't think he's worthy of being an automatic Hall of Fame inductee.

He's very good at being a part time baseball player. In his 17 year career, he has 258 days where he used a glove. 70 of those days were in 1998; another 79 were in 2003-04.

This year, only seven teams have used one specific player as their primary DH (half of the total DH appearances). That means Ortiz had to beat out six other guys to be the "best" DH on the ballot [except that's not completely true either. One of the seven primary DH this year has been Pujols, who was on the ballot at 1B]. Is this true for every year in his career? I can't say without more research, but I don't think it's wholly unreasonable.

Throw in the bright lights of Boston as a contributing factor.

So, it works out that:
A pretty good hitter in a high profile location gets selected to a couple of ASG appearances in a role that few others fill. The appearances in turn inflate his reputation, leading to more appearances, further elevating his profile and prestige.

One last argument:
Games: 1905 - 1874
BA: .287 - .294
OPS: .932 - .945
HR: 420 - 366
RBI: 1391 - 1294
DH appearances: 1564 - 100
Field appearances: 258 - 1715

This wouldn't even be a conversation if Ortiz had played in Houston and Berkman in Boston.

****ty wifi connection.

[This message has been edited by aggie kid (edited 7/11/2013 11:56a).]

Kurkjian made the point last night that you could argue Edgar's body of work is just as impressive, if not more impressive, than Papi's and he's never sniffed the number of votes needed.

And Papi does have the issue of peds coming up somewhere along the way.

He's probably the best DH of all time and it still might not be good enough for the HOF.

The best player from every other position is in.

That is it. He played his assigned position and is the best of all time at it. If that isn't HOF worthy then they may as well perma ban all DH from EVER being considered.

I think that's part of my point. He's the best player ever at a position...

... that's existed for 40 years
... that half of MLB teams don't use at all
... that half of the teams that do use one, don't have one main guy to fill it
... that is often filled by older players

Ortiz essentially became a DH at age 24.

Of the 40 years of the designated hitter, he's spent 13 of them being the big fish in a little pond. Of course his numbers dwarf almost anyone else's.

I understood your point. I don't agree with it.

And of course, it's not even a given that he's the best DH thus far. As corleone said, many feel Edgar Martinez probably has better claim to it.

So, if there's a limited pool of designated hitters to pick from, then I think you'd have to fall back on how Ortiz (and Martinez, for that matter) compare to all hitters of their time. I don't quite get how baseball reference does their similarity scores, but Ortiz is apparently most comparable to

Lance Berkman
Carlos Delgado
Jason Giambi
Jim Edmonds
Paul Konerko
Johnny Mize (HOF)
Juan Gonzalez
Derrek Lee
Gil Hodges
Albert Belle

Is Fat Elvis getting in the Hall?

[This message has been edited by aggie kid (edited 7/11/2013 3:02p).]

yankees win!

So do the Rays.

Any cocoa butter lotion left?

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So, it works out that:

A pretty good hitter in a high profile location gets selected to a couple of ASG appearances in a role that few others fill. The appearances in turn inflate his reputation, leading to more appearances, further elevating his profile and prestige.

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This is off-base, I think. He was/is one of the very best hitters of his generation. That's without regard to position. The classic stats support it. The sabremetrics support it. The MVP voting shows his media contemporaries realized what they were watching.

(Its 9 All Star games, although that's not really my point)

Its a question about whether a guy without glove deserves to make it in the Hall of Fame. Period.



[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 7/12/2013 1:27a).]

I know he has nine appearances. I meant that, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the recognition a player gets from making one (two, three, etc) ASG plays a role in helping him get more appearances later.

I guess I agree with 2011 but then why isn't Edgar even getting close in the voting?


I think there's more to it than just the fact that he's not a fielder.

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So do the Rays.

Any cocoa butter lotion left?

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i used the rest during the hilarious Jeter press conference

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I guess I agree with 2011 but then why isn't Edgar even getting close in the voting?


I think there's more to it than just the fact that he's not a fielder.

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If Ortiz was a very average (or even a below average) 1st baseman, you know he'd be a first ballot entrance.

This is simply the bbwa acting like a bunch of old farts kicking punks off their lawn.

The converse to the DH not being a full time player so they don't deserve a shot, well then starting pitchers shouldn't be either. They don't hit, play one of 5 games etc.