jdaville -

That video was garbage. Awesome, put together a video of 15 plays through 7 games and reshow severla of them from different angles. Thatll win the argument.

I saw numerous plays on that video that werent even flops, they were just no calls that got called. Not to mention, several of the "flops" were actual fouls, they just made it to where the ref had nothing he could do but call the foul. The Mavs were called for 5 more personal fouls than the Spurs over the course of this series.

your team is just not good. Their season was pointless. From day 1 you had no shot at the title. Its a big waste of time. Sit back and enjoy the spurs my friend.

Good Lord, Guitarsoup's beatdown of Dave on the last page looks like Game 7. Brutal, efficient, and never in doubt.

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The Spurs do flop. So does every other team in the league. Officiating in the NBA is terrible.

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I agree that it starts with the officials. The flopping theatrics are ridiculous, but the officials have shown time and time again that they 1) respond to them and 2) will sometimes ignore real fouls if the players don't sell it a bit (and on a charge, if you absorb it stoically and don't go down, the refs will call a defensive foul).

Even when you are set perfectly in the right spot and fall perfectly, the refs still screw up the charge. Think Manu's with about 5 minutes left in game six while Dallas was busy getting every call from the refs to extend it to 7 games.

I hate to break it to you...but that different level of flopping you are referring to...yea, Manu invented that level about a dozen years ago.

Looks like we have some realistic Spurs fans. And yes, I definately dislike the Spurs. Here is the thing...I don't dislike any of the other teams that have beaten the Mavericks over the last 13 years or so, except the Spurs and Heat....the common theme...they both have phantom fouled their way to multiple advantages within a series against the Mavericks. It is a cheap way to gain an edge, plain and simple.

And what is more objective than a video that shows exactly what I am referring to? The same arguments you make in favor of your own team, you turn around and complain about the Mavericks, Rockets, or whomever else it is you are playing.

Just call it like it is. The Spurs flop, and they flop alot, especially in the playoffs. Always have, always will.

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The Spurs do flop. So does every other team in the league. Officiating in the NBA is terrible.

Mav and Rockets fans just bring it up every time the Spurs beat them... which is a lot... so I'm sure there's some bitterness built up there.

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Quite true. On both counts, sadly. However, the resident Spurs fans would have you believe that the Spurs NEVER, EVER flop. It may be a matter of perception more than anything. But it's worth noting that -at least in Ginobili's case- it's not just Dallas Mavs and Houston Rockets fans arguing the case.

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At the beginning of the 2010-11 season, SI asked 152 players who they thought was the NBA's biggest flopper. With the NBA changing toughening its stance on flopping, SI looks back at the results of this poll.

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Coming in at the #2 biggest flopper in the NBA according to 152 NBA players, Manu, behind the notorious Anderson Varejao.

In 2007, ESPN named him the 6th "greatest" flopper in the history of the NBA. (Spurs fans will love that Bruce Bowen was an honorable mention).

In ranking him as the 3rd biggest flopper in the game, Dime Mag has this to say:

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3. Manu Ginobili
Ginobili is a special flopper. He’s a clutch flopper, and there aren’t too many of those. Most of the players on this list can get away with a fling at the 5:54 point in the second quarter. But doing it in the biggest possession of a playoff game? That takes either years of practice, or just a natural gift. God awarded Manu the most balanced unorthodox game perhaps of all time, and he’s probably going to ride it all the way to Springfield. He’s long been one of the best players in this game. But that’s not the only gift he has. As a clutch flopper, he is right at the top.

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(Bonus video, two of the greatest ever to flop go head-to-head)

All that being said, my favorite flop has to be the Lebron James Flop, if only because that dude weighs about 270 pounds and the Newtonian Physics required to propel him across the court just goes to show the kinds of forces these titans of the the NBA are throwing around out there.

Go Spurs.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1534550-nbas-10-biggest-floppers#articles/1534550-nbas-10-biggest-floppers/page/7

as voted on by the players...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1104/nba.biggest.flopper/content.2.html

Number 3 all time!

http://sports-kings.com/passthepill/the-top-10-nba-floppers-all-time/


You know who I don't see showing up on any of these lists? Dirk Nowitzky. You know who the Spurs complain about constantly? Dirk Nowitzky.

You know who is on every list? Manu Ginobli.

mmmmmmmm....that butthurt feels so good to get out!

I think they should take away the charging foul. Taking a charge (and drawing a block) is gaming the officials rather than making a basketball play. Offensively you still can't lead with the shoulder or push off. These plays where a defender leaps in front of the offensive player are BS. The foul is usually light contact, they are almost all 50/50 calls, no play is made on the ball, and there is a risk of injury by undercutting the offensive player and having the defensive player sprawled across the lane while everyone else tries to dance around him.

I agree Ulrich...hate that call. At minimum, I think they should extend the charge lane in general, to just the paint...all of it.

I hate seeing guys get rewarded for making no effort to play actual defense.

[This message has been edited by jdaville (edited 5/5/2014 4:11p).]

Dirk has perfected the art.

The Lebron flop with David West has to be one of the funniest things I've seen in a while.

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I hate to break it to you...but that different level of flopping you are referring to...yea, Manu invented that level about a dozen years ago.

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Sorry. All that happened long before Manu entered the NBA for the 03 season. I realize many Mavs fans believe the NBA started in the early 00s, but it was, in fact, around before then.

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hey both have phantom fouled their way to multiple advantages within a series against the Mavericks

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Then you must hate the Mavs. That's what they did for a 5 minute stretch in game six. Without that stretch, the Mavs lose on their home court. But you aren't *****ing about it when the Mavs benefitted from it.

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It is a cheap way to gain an edge, plain and simple.

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Even cheaper to ignore it when it pertains to your own team and pretend another team monopolizes it when all evidence points to the contrary.

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the resident Spurs fans would have you believe that the Spurs NEVER, EVER flop

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I don't think a single Spurs fan on this board would say that or has ever argued that. But when Dirk is your lead player, you aren't exactly arguing from a position of strength.

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You know who I don't see showing up on any of these lists? Dirk Nowitzky. You know who the Spurs complain about constantly? Dirk Nowitzky.

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You might be the first Mavs fan that I have seen that doesn't know how to even spell his name. Let me guess... not exactly an avid NBA fan.

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I think they should take away the charging foul. Taking a charge (and drawing a block) is gaming the officials rather than making a basketball play.

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How do you replace it? You can't let players just bowl through the defenders. And you don't want to encourage Dirk/Nash matador defense.

A 5 minute stretch, does not a trend make, though neither does 1 Carter flop. Again, laughable to hear a Spurs fan complain about officiating. You guys really are unbelievable.

I submit to you, all the evidence and opinions outside of you and your avid Spurs fans alone.

And yes, it is Nowitzki...My butthurt interfered with my ability to spell. However, again...who is it that shows up on every list? Who is it that never shows up at all?

Exactly. Spurs flop...constantly. And to compare them to anyone else is like comparing a Picaso to a child's finger painting. It just isn't doing their dirty work any justice.

Manu flops more in one series, than the combined Mavericks Roster has flopped in their entire career. Now if JJ Barea was still here...then I might have to tone it down a bit. He flopped. I'm not talking about exaggerating contact to get a call. I'm talking about pretending like you were just shot by a sniper when you were practically not even touched....flailing your arms like a chicken everytime you bulldoze your way into the lane, intiating all the contact, then pretending as though you were just shot...That's the Spurs specialty. Or how about when your defender is just standing there, and then you just launch yourself to the ground and pretend like you were just pushed.

[This message has been edited by jdaville (edited 5/5/2014 4:32p).]

Why do you care so much?

It was enough to win the game. Spurs went from up 4 to down 8 due to a series of terrible calls in the Mavs favor. Without that stretch, Mavs lose in 6.

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I submit to you, all the evidence and opinions outside of you and your avid Spurs fans alone.

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But you still fail to explain that if the Spurs are the worst floppers and flop the most in the NBA, why did they shoot less freethrows than anyone else in the NBA, despite scoring more points in the paint than all but 6 teams. That makes zero sense. They also were one of the worst teams at drawing fouls and one of the worst at drawing charges.

The evidence suggests that the Spurs are no where near the worst floppers in the NBA, and a video of a handful of plays overs 7 games certainly doesn't prove anything like what you are claiming.

If you want to talk about dirty work, we should start with the team that had two flagrant fouls while losing in game seven or the team that had a player suspended for kicking another player in the face.

This guy is entertaining.

Did a Spurs fan really just bring up kicking someone in the face?

Ever heard of Bruce Bowen?

And you still fail to recognize Manu's greatness as a well known flopper...an all time flopper.

As voted on by the players....as voted on my multiple sports websites....as witnessed by everyone with a pulse who has watched a Spurs game.

Hey guys! Do you think Tom Dunken is the best point guard of all time?

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Guys if there's one thing I've noticed since the 2001 playoffs (when most people in Dallas started watching basketball for the first time) is most Mavericks fans aren't really into the whole "fact phenomena." It's confusing to them. Too many numbers and statistics n such. Think of them as a bunch of little anti-Billy Beanes or John Hollingers. It's better to just blame it on the refs... Because, well, that's what their fearless leader Mark Cuban would do. Don't bother arguing with them. If you do you're just going to get mad, and it would be like the equivalent of getting mad at your dog for not learning fluent Spanish. It's not their fault, they just don't understand and never will.

... Although I will add Mavs fans sure do like whining and complaining for a fan base that gets mad at Tim Duncan for just questioning as many foul calls as any other NBA player would.

Oh, and before I forget, the tears... The tears taste so good.

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This is great on any number of levels. Before Dallas won a championship with Nowitzki, Dallas fans on this board were routinely chastised for going to stats and ignoring the "eyeball test" when it came to the argument about Dirk being soft or clutch. It's the same story anytime someone deigns to pull up Romo stats in the fourth quarter or to talk about passer rating.

Stats are appropriate when they are persuasive in favor of one's argument, and the eyeball test is persuasive when stats are not in your corner. Of course, this cuts both ways, but even so I appreciate the condescension. I suppose we could all start talking about how long we've been basketball fans, but I also love the idea that 2001 was apparently last year. If you're a 50 year old man that has a tearful memory of watching George Gervin retire, then congratulations I guess. But even if I were to entertain the concept of a "new mavs fan" that only started watching basketball in the 2001 NBA playoffs", that was 13 years ago. Not exactly last week, and plenty of time for someone to become acquainted with the art form known as ****ty NBA officiating.

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And for the record, I am not advocating that Dallas lost this series because of officiating. San Antonio is a far superior team, and Dallas lost because they couldn't defend the paint when they pinched, and they couldn't defend the arc when they didn't. Plain and simple.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 5/5/2014 4:41p).]

So Dirk flailing around after his elbow is touched is...better than getting hit and flailing around? While Dirk may not fly around on the floor, he does his fair share of flailing.

Manu flops. I think what pisses people off is not that he flops a lot but because of when he flops and that he gets the call. In fact that list said exactly that. Every single player flops and embellishes foul calls. Every. Single. One. But not all of them get the call when it matters. Is that Manu's fault for playing how he normally does or the refs? If you want to continue to harp on the Spurs, go ahead.

[This message has been edited by Natasha Romanoff (edited 5/5/2014 4:41p).]

This argument wouldn't be so damned funny except that so many of the Spurs fans aren't willing to admit even to some degree that Manu is a flop-master.

I can respect those few that do, but the sanctimonious attitudes that so many Spurs fans have is borderline "but...we're Texas". Like their team's sh*t don't stink.

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If you want to talk about dirty work, we should start with the team that had two flagrant fouls while losing in game seven or the team that had a player suspended for kicking another player in the face.

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Do you think that the Blair foul should have been called a flagrant or a common foul? Not arguing the Crowder face grab on Parker, which was cheap. I also forgive Blair for kicking Tiago, because I also wanted to kick Tiago.

lol mavs fans cant leave the thread. Your teams out... better luck next year.

next year will be worse...

And for the record....Yes, the Spurs were the better team...which makes it evem more infuriating to watch them flop. You are suppossed to be the better team, so act like it.

I appreciate this time we have been able to share...it has really provided the opportunity to get some of this out, because my in-laws are huge Spurs fans, and for the sake of the family, I can't let all this out toward them.

I have so many relatives who live in S.A. This has been therapeutic.

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This argument wouldn't be so damned funny except that so many of the Spurs fans aren't willing to admit even to some degree that Manu is a flop-master.

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Can you show me anywhere, ever that any Spurs fan on Texags has denied that Manu flops?

Poor Mav fans.

Did you know you could get secondhand diabetes just from staying in SA a short period of time?

Manu gets under peoples' skin. He looks out of control and awkward and is all over the court and has made a ton of clutch plays over the years, many on deep playoff runs. He also flops and does so just as awkwardly and dramatically as he plays. Those things together are why he's such a high profile flopper, not because he's actually worse or more prolific than a hundred other players that have played in the last 15 years.

I love the Spurs and Manu's flopping ruins the game.

I don't know a single Spurs fan who believes otherwise about Manu and his flopping. Everyone I know acknowledges it and hates it.

People just like to make stuff up about fan bases they don't like.

As a Mavs fan, please, other Mavs fans, just stop. Spurs won. Plain and simple. They get to keep their "Dive for Five" alive.

It's probably the misdirection defense about Manu that drives people crazy. Or at least that drives me crazy. If I call Manu a flopper, the response I get is that Dallas flops, or that Dirk flops. It's not acknowledgment. And usually, it's phrased in such a way that you can reasonably infer that the speaker is implying that Dirk/Dallas flops at least as much as Manu does. I'm not talking about Dallas or Dirk when I talk about Manu flopping. I'm talking about Manu, and the reasonable opinion that Manu is one of the worst floppers in the NBA. I understand the tendency to deflect back at the one making the statement; that's normal and typical. But an omission of a denial is not an admission.

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Did you know you could get secondhand diabetes just from staying in SA a short period of time?

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This is only because Mi Tiara is delicious and is open 24 hours.