Who said any of this, especially your damn made up hashtag????? Nobody is being a freaking bully either. At this point your just making stuff up because you know he is right. The left blows my mind....

GAC06 said:

---

AggieYankee1 said:

---

planoaggie123 said:

---

How is this different from critical businesses? Everyone is at risk from getting sick. And from what we are told by "scientists" kids dont tend to spread as easily as my co-workers and I do.

What happens when a utility company has a crew go down sick? They find replacements. They adapt. They shift things around. They dont just throw their hands up in the air and say "whelp, no electricity for Plano..."

---

Just stop already. You know what I'm saying is right and comparing teachers to lineman is apples to koconuts.

This is not the type of situation you just switch around - teacher goes down there must be SOMEONE to take their place the very next day and THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE.

Most subs are done for the year and will get will not get into the pool - some teachers will quit rather than go back because they are high risk and will (rightly) scared to go back. Some will be there for a couple weeks - get COVID and not return. State law mandates a classroom at a certain size and what your talking about is ridiculous. I noticed how you did not answer my Spanish speaking teacher comment. Must have been an over site.
If your so passionate - let's see you pick up a clip board and march into school and become a sub.... I didn't think so.

I have no idea why people are trying to shove this down our throats. OPEN THE SCHOOLS! OR FIRE THE Teachers!!

Right because after years of calling teachers glorified baby sitters - now you can not live with out them?
Please this is only being pushed because trump is pushing it - much like masks.

The logistics of refilling the ranks is not the same as a essential business. Last time I checked if a line man goes down - they just do less work that day or work on another project.
If a teacher does - that spot must be filled by The next Day! For 14 days.

Give it a rest - stop trying to look smart by going against the grain.

A vaccine is right around the corner - let everyone get it and then we are back in business. Until then - stop trying to put educators lives at risk to satisfy trump/Devos
And the need to bully people into doing what you want them to do because you feel like it.

Teachers lives are not expendable.

And maybe if more people wore masks this virus would be more under control - BUT FREEDOM IS MY RIGHT TO GET YOU SICK HUH? Your trying to force people to live with this virus just like trying to get people to accept mass shooting (gotta die of something right?)

Why? Who knows but you won't win.

---

You're so turned around I don't even know where to begin. Maybe take a breather until you can post a rational thought.

---

Don't hold your breath on that one.

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

Have you ever been in a high school?

I don't disagree with either of your statements. Unfortunately, administrators, superintendents, and teachers don't get to make these decisions in a bubble. They have the governor, TEA, students' families, taxpayers, and more coming unglued, but not all at the same things.

Schools need to open in some way. We need to quit screaming about it and figure out how to make it happen.

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

From a safety standpoint, this is not even close to a workable solution, never mind the practical issues. Classes that don't have substitutes present turn into a chatterfest at best, and Fight Club at worst. Unsupervised classrooms at any level of K-12 is a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools have to have drills periodically...students are just going to magically self-direct themselves to conduct those with no teachers present? Nope.

Upper level AP classes *might* be able to pull it off, but even they are not immune from exhibiting poor impulse control.

cc_ag92 said:

---

Schools need to open in some way. We need to quit screaming about it and figure out how to make it happen.

---

That is exactly right. Come up with a plan, work it, do it, and if it doesnt work try something else.

tysker said:

---

Bonfired said:

---

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

From a safety standpoint, this is not even close to a workable solution, never mind the practical issues. Classes that don't have substitutes present turn into a chatterfest at best, and Fight Club at worst. Unsupervised classrooms at any level of K-12 is a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools have to have drills periodically...students are just going to magically self-direct themselves to conduct those with no teachers present? Nope.

Upper level AP classes *might* be able to pull it off, but even they are not immune from exhibiting poor impulse control.

---

Video conferencing has two way communication so the lack of supervision comes the from not having a physical adult in the room. If actual teachers and subs are in short supply during sporadic isolation periods simply bring in a security officer to sit in the room and video conference the class. Its a simple solution and cheap solution to a major problem that is stalling back to school efforts.

And its disheartening that the negatives presented are not about a lack of education, quality control or implementation but that HS students suck and and cant control themselves. Its an unfortunate take on teenagers and one I cant relate to currently. Maybe even our high schools are more like day cares than I realize.

---

On an individual basis, most HS kids are fine. In a group of 20-30, that whole dynamic can change pretty dramatically, depending on the makeup of the group. There have been years where I swore that there was nothing random about certain class periods.

I teach an upper level elective, and feel comfortable leaving them be for a few minutes while I go make some copies or something like that...I do that fairly regularly, actually. Would I leave them for an entire class period? Absolutely not.

RGV AG said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

We went to open ventilation, NO AC mind you, with lots of air flow. Hotter than hell, but the air moves.

So you opened doors and windows?

---

Yep, totally. All the doors and the windows that we have, we have mainly big doors and wall mounted fans.

---

Unfortunately, that isn't an option where I teach. I'm on the third floor and we don't have the ability to open anything up, Nevermind the security issues either.

I realize I'm ****ting on your plan but I'm not. I just don't have a solution to that major issue. They turn the air off in the summer and I was up in my room for an hour or so and it was almost unbearable. Add 450+ 8th graders to the floor and it's even hotter.

I NEVER leave my class unless I am about to throw up or have a bathroom accident. I try to avoid the latter by becoming dehydrated pretty much all year. If I have to leave the teacher next door stands in the hall and watches both classes. I do the same.

It has been drilled into us that we are legally responsible is someone is hurt and we left the class. I teach 16 to 18 year olds. I promise you babies would be made if they had all day without a sub.

The security officer idea is good but we only have 11 at my school and that does not even allow us to put one one every entrance and exit. Our seven APs will also roam to fill in at entrance and exits during class changes. Fire code does NOT let you lock or block the doors. My school was built when safety was considered a way to get them out of a building quickly. Two of the officers are assigned to cover the hours we are not in class so that leaves nine. Even without covid with about 300 staff, on any day ten or so will be out. During a time when a stomach bug is going thru the school it might even be as high as 30.

And these again are people who do not make a ton of money.

By law, some students MUST have not one but TWO adults present due to laws for special education. There are huge fines and lawsuits waiting if this is not complied with. I am not a special edcuation teacher, but I am the co teach regular education teacher...my students all have to have either a special education teacher in the classroom or a sped trained para. Those para positions are hard to fill...pay is low. The only real thing they have over subs financially is benefits. We have trouble keeping those positiions filled.

I am so ready to go back. Most teacher I know are.

BUT we want some things that industry is doing that most schools are not because TEA is not requiring it.

We want hand sanitizer not just at school entrances but in the classrooms.

We want temp checks at school. The honor system does not work because parents in large numbers routinely send sick kids to school. How do we know? Well a good clue is the kid with pink eye who says mom helped get is eye unglued before school that morning. The kid who projectile vomits and then says she was doing it all night. The one doubled over with stomach cramps and so hot you can feel the heat just walking by...who says guess my tylenol is wearing off...that one actually had a ruptured appendix by the time I got the nurse to the room, she called an ambulance, and had the parents meet them at the hospital.

We want clorox wipes or something similar to disinfect desks and chrome books between classes and time to do so.

We want a dress code that will allow scrubs or jeans since we will be doing tons of cleaning and don't want to ruin our "dress clothes" that we usually have to wear.

We want enough time between classes to get to the bathroom and wash our hands and for students to do the same.

We want to know how legally required drills are going to look with social distancing?

We are concernced that most schools have no hot water for hand washing. Not fixable but a concern.

We are concerned that TEA seems most worried about the STAAR test when teachers who love their students as our own (and we do) want safety to be paramount in reopening.

Of course nothing is safe. An airplane can fall out of the sky and hit a school. We know that. We also know that our school increased security as a response to the wave of school schootings. We also increased training and empahsis on social and emotional learning.

We simply want the same level of concern and action...we want to be sure we are making schools as safe as possible for the virus.. not just say open the doors and business as usual.

tysker said:

---

Bonfired said:

---

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

From a safety standpoint, this is not even close to a workable solution, never mind the practical issues. Classes that don't have substitutes present turn into a chatterfest at best, and Fight Club at worst. Unsupervised classrooms at any level of K-12 is a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools have to have drills periodically...students are just going to magically self-direct themselves to conduct those with no teachers present? Nope.

Upper level AP classes *might* be able to pull it off, but even they are not immune from exhibiting poor impulse control.

---

Video conferencing has two way communication so the lack of supervision comes the from not having a physical adult in the room. If actual teachers and subs are in short supply during sporadic isolation periods simply bring in a security officer to sit in the room and video conference the class. Its a simple solution and cheap solution to a major problem that is stalling back to school efforts.

And its disheartening that the negatives presented are not about a lack of education, quality control or implementation but that HS students suck and and cant control themselves. Its an unfortunate take on teenagers and one I cant relate to currently. Maybe even our high schools are more like day cares than I realize.

---

I work at a school that had over 3K students, we don't have enough security officers to be able to pull something like this off.

I think you really touched on something with your last paragraph, maybe even unintentionally. The general public doesn't have a great idea of what a school looks like today or how it functions. Part of that is the fault of people simply not caring enough to be involved and part of it is on educators not being more open.

nai06 said:

---

tysker said:

---

Bonfired said:

---

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

From a safety standpoint, this is not even close to a workable solution, never mind the practical issues. Classes that don't have substitutes present turn into a chatterfest at best, and Fight Club at worst. Unsupervised classrooms at any level of K-12 is a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools have to have drills periodically...students are just going to magically self-direct themselves to conduct those with no teachers present? Nope.

Upper level AP classes *might* be able to pull it off, but even they are not immune from exhibiting poor impulse control.

---

Video conferencing has two way communication so the lack of supervision comes the from not having a physical adult in the room. If actual teachers and subs are in short supply during sporadic isolation periods simply bring in a security officer to sit in the room and video conference the class. Its a simple solution and cheap solution to a major problem that is stalling back to school efforts.

And its disheartening that the negatives presented are not about a lack of education, quality control or implementation but that HS students suck and and cant control themselves. Its an unfortunate take on teenagers and one I cant relate to currently. Maybe even our high schools are more like day cares than I realize.

---

I work at a school that had over 3K students, we don't have enough security officers to be able to pull something like this off.

I think you really touched on something with your last paragraph, maybe even unintentionally. The general public doesn't have a great idea of what a school looks like today or how it functions. Part of that is the fault of people simply not caring enough to be involved and part of it is on educators not being more open.

---

This is really true. I am not saying kids are evil, but rather high school has changed much through the years and that is not just in large schools. However, in small schools the mama grapevine still works. John does something stupid while teacher is out of room and his mom will have many phone calls before school is out. In a large school what is more apt to happen is that kids will start making tic toc videos trying to outdo each other for things that are tasteless, some will skip school and do whatever, some girl will be flirting with someone not her boyfriend, and another will send him the video on his phone, he will walk into the room and a fight will start. Others will meet boyfriends or girlfriends in some hidden corner of the campus, a few will start tearing up computers just for the fun of it.

And almost all of this will be taken to social media. I have seen kids watching fights at other campuses live on their phones during lunch.

Yes an AP or AVID class might be different, but teens in large numbers with no adult supervision will make bad choices and do silly and stupid things.

The days of kids being good when no one is in the room are pretty much over. Especially when they know no one is coming. I had an instance ten years ago when an ARD meeting ran way over and although a teacher had been told to cover the class, he never showed up. Whne the meeting was over, that period was over. My kids had not made a sound. They thought I would get in trouble for not being there. They did not roam the hall. They read the instructions on the white board, did the work, and it was ready to be turned it. I am sure the visited quietly and "helped" each other with the work. However I doubt seriously kids today would do that.

I think equity by way of making everyone worse off is a monumentally bad idea.

I get why schools want equity normally but this an abnormal situation. We should not be forcing kids into a worse situation because a different campus in district has issues they have to work through.

I have elementary grandkids and know it is critical for the first grader especially to have real school. In fact I hope he repeats first grade if there are too many interruptions. It is too important to do halfway.

High school is a different world.

One big concern I have is that high school kids won't really work for teachers just because. I am a teacher does not work with them. You have to build relationships and have them understand that you care and relate to the issues in their lives. High schools also are almost entirely using PBIS which means students stay in the classroom for things that would have been punished in the past.

Districts make those decisions, not teachers.

But most schools are really hurting for funding. Big time. While throwing money at the situation seems like a quick solution, the money is not there. I am going to go look up actual numbers and will be back. Paraprofesonals are mainly assigned to special ed students who are required to have a second adult with them at all times. They make 12 dollars an hour. And only get paid for school days so not a year round job. Substitues for these jobs get 10 dollars an hour. A friend signed up to do this as a sub and was at the hospital getting stitches as a student bit her severely her first day. These paras are angels as far as teachers are concerned, but subbing for paras is the only sub job in my district you can do without at least 45 hours of college work. Teacher subs are better paid than in many districts. They get 75 a day with no benefits. But many of the unemployed people in the service industry would have to take the 10 an hour special ed sub positions.

Security officers have security training and start at 12 an hour. Some postitions are not year round since fewer are needed in the summer and the most senior people take those.

To fully staff these jobs, districts would have to increase pay and right now most districts are hurting bad for money.

My district does a fantastic job, but 75 percoent of our students are minority, 65 percent are (free lunch) economially deprived, and 25 percent are Language Learners (what used to be called ESL.) Most of our families are what I would call working class not welfare class. Most have ONE computer and internet. Parents and all children have to share. Students will have hand me down smart phones but these are not ideal for doing serious academic work.

We really need and want the kids to be in the classroom. I am stressing about how I can build relationships with students I have never met face to face. Ending the year online was much easier than starting the year online.

Large city high schools are a differnt world from rural ones also. That is why back to school decisions need to be left up to local districts.

tysker said:

---

nai06 said:

---

tysker said:

---

Bonfired said:

---

tysker said:

---

cc_ag92 said:

---

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that a classroom of unsupervised college students would behave dramatically differently from a classroom of unsupervised high school students.

---

Depends on the class and students doesn't it? HS kids can regulate themselves and expect classmates to respect the classroom environment. College students fall asleep and play games on their phone too. Video conferencing usually allows for two way video and conversation or least since the year 2003.

---

From a safety standpoint, this is not even close to a workable solution, never mind the practical issues. Classes that don't have substitutes present turn into a chatterfest at best, and Fight Club at worst. Unsupervised classrooms at any level of K-12 is a disaster waiting to happen.

Schools have to have drills periodically...students are just going to magically self-direct themselves to conduct those with no teachers present? Nope.

Upper level AP classes *might* be able to pull it off, but even they are not immune from exhibiting poor impulse control.

---

Video conferencing has two way communication so the lack of supervision comes the from not having a physical adult in the room. If actual teachers and subs are in short supply during sporadic isolation periods simply bring in a security officer to sit in the room and video conference the class. Its a simple solution and cheap solution to a major problem that is stalling back to school efforts.

And its disheartening that the negatives presented are not about a lack of education, quality control or implementation but that HS students suck and and cant control themselves. Its an unfortunate take on teenagers and one I cant relate to currently. Maybe even our high schools are more like day cares than I realize.

---

I work at a school that had over 3K students, we don't have enough security officers to be able to pull something like this off.

I think you really touched on something with your last paragraph, maybe even unintentionally. The general public doesn't have a great idea of what a school looks like today or how it functions. Part of that is the fault of people simply not caring enough to be involved and part of it is on educators not being more open.

---

I get that but in a world of high unemployment Im sure schools could find adults and volunteers to 'manage' classrooms that are being taught remotely. I would hope there's enough desire and help coming from parents and the community. But again maybe its just wishful thinking from a parent of younger kids with no idea what older classrooms really look like nowadays.

---

It all depends on the school I suppose. I teach at a school that is in a low income neighborhood with a high need student population. Almost all of our parents work so it's hard to pull something like that off. My biggest complaint is that TEA has basically taken this out of the hands of local districts. I'm sure there are some schools that could easily manage opening with proper precautions. It's not so easy for others. My ideal compromise for a larger district would open half the schools. Staff those schools with students and teachers who want to go in person. Let everyone else go online. Teachers who want to go online could be set up in an empty classroom to teach online classes all day. If a teacher really had a medical need to not leave home they could teach remotely.

I think with that set up you could satisfy a lot of different attitudes and opinions.

Smokedraw01 said:

---

Aren't most European schools open to elementary kids and closed to secondary students?

Honestly, elementary students should go back. It's easier to isolate them from each other. Recess would be a major issue to organize but probably doable.

---

Absolutely no need to isolate elementary students.

Haven't read many of the recent posts on this thread, sorry if this has been discussed.

One argument I am tired of seeing is "we don't know the long term impacts of this disease" when discussing why schools can't open.

I'm sorry, are you saying we have to wait another 6 months, to assess long term impacts, before we open schools? Or a year? Or 2 years? What percentage of people, much less kids, would have symptoms after more than 2 months? HOw does this compare to other respiratory illnesses? I understand fear of the unknown is scary, but we can look at data from other respiratory illnesses, we have data from real patients dating back 7 months now, let's not be afraid and instead look at data.

And yes, I do wonder about long term impacts of this illness, or any illness - a fair concern. However, why are you not asking what the long term impacts of online learning and lack of socialization in the k-12 population might be? While 1% of Covid patients may have some form of lasting impact, 100% of the kids in my school district will not have had in person learning for 6 months by the time the EARLIEST date for resuming that arrives. I am concerned about this impact for my children much more than I am about the impact of Covid on that age group.



The Travis County public "health authority" stated up to 1300 kids could die if in person teaching resumes. This statement was made despite the fact Germany and Italy combined have 10 or fewer deaths of people under the age of 20. The population of those two countries is 140 million, Travis County is 1.7 million. If people in a position to cancel all in person learning for both public and private schools believe such ridiculous numbers, we are doomed.

Don't get why the focus is on the kids. Quoting stats about how not sick kids gets isn't moving the needle.

Kids not getting sick alone won't get kids back. The teachers are the issue.