Reopening Schools

246,800 Views | 2236 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by AustinAg2K
rojo_ag
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First, sorry so long, and I won't feel bad if you choose not to read this post.

Hmmm. I'm at a loss right now with what we can do to have face-to-face interactions with a majority of my 150 or so 6th grade students in the fall.

Our district sent out a survey to parents. 61% said they would be comfortable sending their children to school. The survey did not include preferences regarding how many mitigation strategies the campus should employ. So, of the 61%, how many parents support business as usual instruction?

The overwhelming majority of parents support a M,W schedule for one group and a T, R schedule for the other. All students will participate in distance learning on Fridays. When students are at home on off days, they will complete assignments digitally.

Faculty and staff completed a survey yesterday. We were able to voice our concerns about instruction and safety as well as our preferred schedule. We were also instructed to rate safety protocols on a 1 - 4 scale. My wife, who also teaches at the same campus, wants to have 100% online instruction. I wholeheartedly disagreed and want traditional face-to-face instruction. Until we are able to provide the necessary supports for at risk, special needs, and poorer students in an online format, we are doing a major disservice to them. This is a major disservice to all students! This caused a bit of tension in my house yesterday. I also rated mask wearing for students low. I cannot imagine the daily redirection that will potentially occur. Mask wearing is so polarizing and political. How many students will say, "My parents said I don't have to wear a mask." How much support will campus admin provide? More tension in my house!

I have several other concerns. If a faculty member is exposed or sick, will the teacher have to use their sick and personal days. Once they exhaust their days, will they be docked pay? I have quite a bit of days saved, but my wife does not. Would we both be in quarantine for 14 days and if sick need to test negative twice in order to return? We have a four year old and a 11 month old; what if our district daycare is closed? What if our four year old, who will be in PreK, is on a rotating schedule?

I don't know how any of this will work. I cannot imagine many parents wanting their children to attend classes with little or no mitigation strategies in place. Students and teachers are going to contract the virus regardless of trying to prevent the spread.

In addition, If we want to keep secondary students in the same classroom all day, (I know this would be awful) perhaps we would have to consider tracking students as on-level or AP, eliminate electives in a face to face setting, and only teach core subjects. The state would have to change graduation requirements.

I hate this so much!
nai06
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MasterAggie said:

Quote:

The complexity and Nuance is if those "nervous nellies" stay home your district doesn't get state or federal funding for those kids because it is attendance based.

The call you've read about in these threads with the TEA commissioner and superintendents was to cover how funding will be handled with hybrid models.

Budgets are set, teacher contracts are signed and districts have no way to model attendance based funding other than guessing what "nervous nellies" are going to do.


All of this is incorrect. All budgets aren't set many contracts are not signed and there is a attendance model set for kids remote learning.
For the first time ever, my contract doesn't even have dates listed. It just says the 2020-2021 school year
murphyag
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P.U.T.U said:

High schools will be the most difficult since you see more cases over 15 than under. Elementary kids are at the lowest risk of getting and spreading COVID so some small changes will be all that is needed.

I was speaking with an Austin administrator and what she wanted was absolute madness in my opinion that would put too much on the teachers for elementary and middle school teachers. Temperature checks before entering, temperature checks 3-5 times a day, washing hands once an hour, lunches in class, teachers teaching the same kids all day, wipe down all outdoor play equipment after each class uses it, no water fountains (kids have to bring their own cups, no touching other kids, and no indoor PE. Just out of touch with what kids do.


Temperature checks several times a day might actually be a good idea. My stepsister was a teacher and parents constantly would load their kids up on Tylenol and cold/coughs meds and send them to school sick as a dog. Sick with flu, strep throat, ear infections, bronchitis, etc. She even had a few sent in with pneumonia a few years ago. Then the meds would wear off and kid would be running high temp and just feeling miserable. School nurse would call parents to come pick up these kids and some parents would refuse and say they couldn't leave work. Or they'd agree to come pick up their child and not show up for 3-4 hours. Just total nonsense. She assumes same thing will happen when school starts back up.
3rd Generation Ag
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Add stomach bugs. Kid throws up in class an then says they have been doing it since yesterday evening. Working parents have to work so sick kids come to school.

Tarrant just added to list of counties with mask ordinances. Do these apply to schools?
tylercsbn9
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School districts 100% need to cover employee pay if they get COVID19. They shouldnt have to use their allotted PTO days. Absolutely horse **** if they don't IMO.
3rd Generation Ag
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Again, I have 8 weeks of leave saved up but many teachers don't. Some districts don't add to the five state days. It is hard to save days. Many of my cohorts will be out of payed leave before the end of a 14 day quarantine. I can survive three of them.

planoaggie123
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I tend to agree the COVID absenses should be 100% paid even if the person is a full 2+ weeks of hospital level sick. At least until a vaccine is available and then should be treated like the flu....
rojo_ag
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3rd Generation Ag said:

Again, I have 8 weeks of leave saved up but many teachers don't. Some districts don't add to the five state days. It is hard to save days. Many of my cohorts will be out of payed leave before the end of a 14 day quarantine. I can survive three of them.


Last year, I had 60 days saved. I used 31 days to stay with my infant child when my wife went back to the classroom. We were docked over $7000 during her maternity leave (which she cut short) since she had exhausted much of her paid leave with our first. I have enough days to handle two quarantine periods. My wife on the other hand would use the five state and five district days we receive each year. Then, we will potentially be docked.
planoaggie123
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Wow. 60 days. You are a teacher as well?

Are there limits on teacher PTO accural? My dad was in "administration" and i remember he had so much saved up his last 2 years he took off 3 days a week and still did not use it all. He eventually just decided to retire.
rojo_ag
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Yep. I am a teacher for the last 23 years. Our district does not limit the amount of days we can accrue. I left a district 10 years ago, and they paid me for all of my district days. I received a nice check for the days. I've been in my current district for 10 years, and I am relatively healthy. Used my days from October to after Thanksgiving for paternity leave. The time spent with my son was a gift.
3rd Generation Ag
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No limit but it is really hard to build up while your kids are little. I have been teaching 39 years. When my kids were school age all leave each year went to staying home when they were sick. And I was guilty of giving them meds and keeping my finders crossed a few times. Loss of income is huge when days are gone.

Then I started building mine up but when I become my dad's caregive, he had a brain stem stroke at 91 and I was staying at the hospital with him and used most of it up. Four years later we lost him, but he was in an out of the hsopital that entire year and finally on home hospice.

I had a WONDERFUL administrator who actually covered my classes for me the last few days of school that year since I was at zero leave and managed not to get pay docked.

Started building again. These years were all at a five a year only school. Fell and broke my hip in 2011 and had to have two surgeries during the year. Used all leave and had income hit. Luckily I had disability insurance that picked up some of it.

I am too old for that insurance now. Sucks.
But I am at 40 days saved and will get ten more this year. So glad I did not start using it up last year. I plan on teaching this year and then half of next year. I really need to do this since all my years before were at a state miminum pay school. I need the years now at a huge increase like 17,ooo a year more to all be used for my average.

So I am hoping if it gets so bad I use up leave, we would be in a remote learning mode everywhere. Hopefully vaccine before next year.

But we take HUGE financial hits when days are used up.
lunchbox
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tylercsbn9 said:

School districts 100% need to cover employee pay if they get COVID19. They shouldnt have to use their allotted PTO days. Absolutely horse **** if they don't IMO.
My friend works for a district that is giving every employee 10 days as part of the CARES act. It isn't going in their normal leave bank but instead will be tracked by HR (I am sure there will be all sorts of forms that have to be filled out to use them). They can also be used for any illness.

ETA - once you use those 10 days, you have to then use your leave days and once those are gone, you have to go on FMLA.
planoaggie123
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Got it. I could have sworn they changed the policy but glad they did not. I hate losing mine every year. We can only carry over 40 hours. I feel like those are days provided as part of ocmpensation and if you don't use them they should either roll 100% or be paid out (if paid out just toss it into a special account for future rainy days).
tylercsbn9
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lunchbox said:

tylercsbn9 said:

School districts 100% need to cover employee pay if they get COVID19. They shouldnt have to use their allotted PTO days. Absolutely horse **** if they don't IMO.
My friend works for a district that is giving every employee 10 days as part of the CARES act. It isn't going in their normal leave bank but instead will be tracked by HR (I am sure there will be all sorts of forms that have to be filled out to use them). They can also be used for any illness.


That's great. Hopefully other districts do the same.

I'm working from home indefinitely so I can take care of this kids should anything arise but it's absolutely BS if they force teachers in and then get sick and can't work for two weeks. All it would do is lead to bad actions by teachers. They wouldn't get tested if they have mild cases. They need to be generous as possible during these times.
rojo_ag
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Sure you don't want to go for an even 50?

My mentor made it to 50 this year. He's plans to keep going since he taught and coached at a private school for a portion of the 50. The district he teaches for paid the minimum for years. With the pay raise last year and a bump in the maximum years on the pay scale, he will add quite a bit to his monthly pay in retirement.

I'll be 74 if I make it to 50 years of service.

Oh, and isn't it great to have supportive administration!
Bonfired
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planoaggie123 said:

Wow. 60 days. You are a teacher as well?

Are there limits on teacher PTO accural? My dad was in "administration" and i remember he had so much saved up his last 2 years he took off 3 days a week and still did not use it all. He eventually just decided to retire.


As far as I know, your leave can accumulate indefinitely. I've got around 180 days stockpiled, but given my situation (single, no kids), I didn't have to use them much...and we all know it's more of a pain in the ass to prepare for a sub than it is to just come to school and slug through a day.

My 1st or 2nd year, we had an aide that was retiring and had so many days in reserve that he came to school only on Wednesdays. A doctor's note was required for absences of 5 consecutive days or more, so he made sure to miss only 4 in a row.

I'd be interested to know what our district's plan is for Covid-specific leave is, if there is one.
rojo_ag
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planoaggie123 said:

Got it. I could have sworn they changed the policy but glad they did not. I hate losing mine every year. We can only carry over 40 hours. I feel like those are days provided as part of ocmpensation and if you don't use them they should either roll 100% or be paid out (if paid out just toss it into a special account for future rainy days).
That is not right! You should at least be able to keep your state days.
planoaggie123
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Oh sorry. Clarification...not a teacher...just a normal ole worker...
rojo_ag
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https://www.kvue.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/austin-coronavirus-covid-19-aisd-cases/269-40f5847b-47cc-4b6d-b3a7-769a30bbab64

This does not bode well.
rojo_ag
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planoaggie123 said:

Oh sorry. Clarification...not a teacher...just a normal ole worker...
Got it. Still BS policy IMO.
lunchbox
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rojo_ag said:

planoaggie123 said:

Oh sorry. Clarification...not a teacher...just a normal ole worker...
Got it. Still BS policy IMO.
If they are vacation days (and not state/local days), then it just depends on the policy for how many can be rolled over.

My friend used to be able to roll over 240 hours vacation but it was just upped permanently to 400 hours (in part, due to no one using their vacation these past 3 months).
P.U.T.U
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murphyag said:

P.U.T.U said:

High schools will be the most difficult since you see more cases over 15 than under. Elementary kids are at the lowest risk of getting and spreading COVID so some small changes will be all that is needed.

I was speaking with an Austin administrator and what she wanted was absolute madness in my opinion that would put too much on the teachers for elementary and middle school teachers. Temperature checks before entering, temperature checks 3-5 times a day, washing hands once an hour, lunches in class, teachers teaching the same kids all day, wipe down all outdoor play equipment after each class uses it, no water fountains (kids have to bring their own cups, no touching other kids, and no indoor PE. Just out of touch with what kids do.


Temperature checks several times a day might actually be a good idea. My stepsister was a teacher and parents constantly would load their kids up on Tylenol and cold/coughs meds and send them to school sick as a dog. Sick with flu, strep throat, ear infections, bronchitis, etc. She even had a few sent in with pneumonia a few years ago. Then the meds would wear off and kid would be running high temp and just feeling miserable. School nurse would call parents to come pick up these kids and some parents would refuse and say they couldn't leave work. Or they'd agree to come pick up their child and not show up for 3-4 hours. Just total nonsense. She assumes same thing will happen when school starts back up.
But what is the common class size now for elementary kids in say a 4A-6A area? I know when my mom was teaching she had 25-35. I hope that has decreased but that is the most complicated portion.

At elementary and middle school age it may not be a deal breaker to have 10 minute breaks to measure temperatures. I know my attention span wasn't very long at that age.
Robk
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rojo_ag said:

First, sorry so long, and I won't feel bad if you choose not to read this post.

Hmmm. I'm at a loss right now with what we can do to have face-to-face interactions with a majority of my 150 or so 6th grade students in the fall.

Our district sent out a survey to parents. 61% said they would be comfortable sending their children to school. The survey did not include preferences regarding how many mitigation strategies the campus should employ. So, of the 61%, how many parents support business as usual instruction?

The overwhelming majority of parents support a M,W schedule for one group and a T, R schedule for the other. All students will participate in distance learning on Fridays. When students are at home on off days, they will complete assignments digitally.

Faculty and staff completed a survey yesterday. We were able to voice our concerns about instruction and safety as well as our preferred schedule. We were also instructed to rate safety protocols on a 1 - 4 scale. My wife, who also teaches at the same campus, wants to have 100% online instruction. I wholeheartedly disagreed and want traditional face-to-face instruction. Until we are able to provide the necessary supports for at risk, special needs, and poorer students in an online format, we are doing a major disservice to them. This is a major disservice to all students! This caused a bit of tension in my house yesterday. I also rated mask wearing for students low. I cannot imagine the daily redirection that will potentially occur. Mask wearing is so polarizing and political. How many students will say, "My parents said I don't have to wear a mask." How much support will campus admin provide? More tension in my house!

I have several other concerns. If a faculty member is exposed or sick, will the teacher have to use their sick and personal days. Once they exhaust their days, will they be docked pay? I have quite a bit of days saved, but my wife does not. Would we both be in quarantine for 14 days and if sick need to test negative twice in order to return? We have a four year old and a 11 month old; what if our district daycare is closed? What if our four year old, who will be in PreK, is on a rotating schedule?

I don't know how any of this will work. I cannot imagine many parents wanting their children to attend classes with little or no mitigation strategies in place. Students and teachers are going to contract the virus regardless of trying to prevent the spread.

In addition, If we want to keep secondary students in the same classroom all day, (I know this would be awful) perhaps we would have to consider tracking students as on-level or AP, eliminate electives in a face to face setting, and only teach core subjects. The state would have to change graduation requirements.

I hate this so much!


You touch a bit on my question as a Teacher. I go to school a lot when I feel "under the weather". What should constitute being sick for teachers and students. Do I or my kids stay home if we have a cough. Do we stay home if we feel a little feverish but dont have 100 degree fever. What about allergies. There really can be no definitive guidance.
planoaggie123
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This is a big one.

Otherwise, especially in young kids, you can have any sort of cough, runny nose, etc. That is how kids build immunity.

If you get too strict on what it takes to send home, you will have some rooms that are effectively going to school form home all year. If too lax, higher risk of COVID.

I think for parents sending their kids back, they are likely going to opt for #2. They are already sort of making that decision.
Knucklesammich
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MasterAggie said:

Quote:

The complexity and Nuance is if those "nervous nellies" stay home your district doesn't get state or federal funding for those kids because it is attendance based.

The call you've read about in these threads with the TEA commissioner and superintendents was to cover how funding will be handled with hybrid models.

Budgets are set, teacher contracts are signed and districts have no way to model attendance based funding other than guessing what "nervous nellies" are going to do.


All of this is incorrect. All budgets aren't set many contracts are not signed and there is a attendance model set for kids remote learning.


You are correct painted with too broad a brush. Most districts have sent out contracts for signatures many/most have signed statewide and TEA commissioner rolled out attendance requirements on Tuesday, thought it had moved to today.

Attendance models were set but many districts are still not set on how to meet them.
rojo_ag
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Robk said:




You touch a bit on my question as a Teacher. I go to school a lot when I feel "under the weather". What should constitute being sick for teachers and students. Do I or my kids stay home if we have a cough. Do we stay home if we feel a little feverish but dont have 100 degree fever. What about allergies. There really can be no definitive guidance.
I'm starting to think that in this reality; if you have any Covid-19-like symptoms, you should consider staying at home.
3rd Generation Ag
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No link cause on phone but saw the austin isd had a large number of staff exposed now.
lunchbox
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rojo_ag said:

Robk said:




You touch a bit on my question as a Teacher. I go to school a lot when I feel "under the weather". What should constitute being sick for teachers and students. Do I or my kids stay home if we have a cough. Do we stay home if we feel a little feverish but dont have 100 degree fever. What about allergies. There really can be no definitive guidance.
I'm starting to think that in this reality; if you have any Covid-19-like symptoms, you should consider staying at home.
The problem is going to be how they are able to return to work.

My SIL working for a Dallas area ISD called in sick today because she was running a 99.x fever. She was told she can't come back to work until she has a negative test. She can't get a test appt until Saturday and then it will be 3-7 days to get results.

If that is the mindset going forward across the state, you are going to have people either go to work sick or be out for several days because they were being cautious.
rojo_ag
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3rd Generation Ag said:

No link cause on phone but saw the austin isd had a large number of staff exposed now.
I posted a link from KVUE reporting about this higher on the page.
Maroon Elephant
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I'm pessimistic about schools reopening now. It's tragic because the entire economic recovery hinges on schools being re-opened.
planoaggie123
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I am not. Its a choice. If concerned, remote learn. If not, go to school. The big thing is procedures for all the possible scenarios of sickness, transmission, etc. Our nation has handled more complex issues. They will figure it out...
Keegan99
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Maroon Elephant said:

I'm pessimistic about schools reopening now. It's tragic because the entire economic recovery hinges on schools being re-opened.


Schools in dozens of European nations have opened without incident.

If the Euros can do it, there is no reason we can't.
rojo_ag
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lunchbox said:

rojo_ag said:

Robk said:




You touch a bit on my question as a Teacher. I go to school a lot when I feel "under the weather". What should constitute being sick for teachers and students. Do I or my kids stay home if we have a cough. Do we stay home if we feel a little feverish but dont have 100 degree fever. What about allergies. There really can be no definitive guidance.
I'm starting to think that in this reality; if you have any Covid-19-like symptoms, you should consider staying at home.
The problem is going to be how they are able to return to work.

My SIL working for a Dallas area ISD called in sick today because she was running a 99.x fever. She was told she can't come back to work until she has a negative test. If that is the mindset going forward across the state, you are going to have people either go to work sick or be out for several days because they were being cautious.
Wow! I'm not sure how I feel about this. If you call in sick, you are potentially out until you test negative. This is not good. In addition, what if one of my children is running a fever? Is he or she out until they test negative? Do I also have to be tested?
planoaggie123
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Sounds like you need to get the test and just keep going into work and pray it comes back negative
Maroon Elephant
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I'm not saying we shouldn't reopen, I absolutely believe we should and we must reopen schools. I'm saying our chicken sh*t politicians will not allow it to happen.
 
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