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Its not about what Loras wants. Its about Marjaery's ambition. Remember her conversation with Littlefinger after Renly's death?

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The Flower is probably pissed that Stannis murdered his lover.

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This.

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Its not about what Loras wants. Its about Marjaery's ambition. Remember her conversation with Littlefinger after Renly's death?

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I've been trying to figure out how this plays in. How would she get to be THE Queen? Surely they don't plan to marry her to Joffrey?

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Its not about what Loras wants. Its about Marjaery's ambition. Remember her conversation with Littlefinger after Renly's death?

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I've been trying to figure out how this plays in. How would she get to be THE Queen? Surely they don't plan to marry her to Joffrey?

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Why not?

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Its not about what Loras wants. Its about Marjaery's ambition. Remember her conversation with Littlefinger after Renly's death?

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I've been trying to figure out how this plays in. How would she get to be THE Queen? Surely they don't plan to marry her to Joffrey?

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I think that is the plan. Or to kill off joffrey and replace him with a more suitable lannistar?

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I think that is the plan. Or to kill off joffrey and replace him with a more suitable lannistar?

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Maybe Jaime? Then we can have a cat fight between Cersie and the Tyrell girl. That's be hot

They Tyrells have to join up with someone so as not to be left out. They could join Stannis but they think he murdered Renly so that isn't happening. They could join Robb but they have no real connection to the North and Robb doesn't want the Iron Throne. That leaves the Lannisters who need them badly and can give them a chance at revenge on Stannis. A Lannister/Tyrell alliance puts the 2 richest kingdoms together. The Lannisters also would basically give the Tyrells just about anything they want because they need their army and their navy.

Who is The Flower?

And they no longer need Joffrey to marry Sansa because an alliance with the North / Starks is impossible now.

Stannis' boyfriend and the knight who knocked the Mountain off his horse in the tournament in S1. He was with Tywin when they entered in the last scene.

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Stannis' boyfriend and the knight who knocked the Mountain off his horse in the tournament in S1. He was with Tywin when they entered in the last scene.

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He was Brenly's lover, not Stannis. Loras Tyrell. He did unseat Mountain in the tournament, using a mare in heat.

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He was Brenly's lover, not Stannis. Loras Tyrell. He did unseat Mountain in the tournament, using a mare in heat.

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Whoops, I had the wrong Baratheon, you are correct.

Renly

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They could join Stannis but they think he murdered Renly so that isn't happening.

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well, he sorta did. :P

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Who is The Flower?

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Ser Loras Tyrell, he's the young curly-haired fairy boy who was first introduced by besting the Mountain in the jousting tournament and then revealed to be renly's gay lover.

and it's sort of explained by loras last season in the shaving scene with renly, he's talking about his house (the tyrells) have a lot of money, but not much in the way of military strength. a little background to help with that, the tyrells hold land called Highgarden in the southern areas of westeros, which apart from the riverlands (before the war started) is the most fertile and ideal place to live as far as crops and all that go. so they're both an ideal ally, and they need an ally with a strong military force. someone else explained why he joined the lannisters specifically over robb or stannis so i think that's enough to piece it all together

now having said that, if you remember the scene after renly's death where loras was basically super pissed off and wanted to go kill stannis now, littlefinger was the one to calm him down and try and talk sense into him and margaery. plus littlefinger also visited tywin about a possible alliance, so his hands are in this too

[This message has been edited by unicyclist_ag (edited 5/31/2012 12:01p).]

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Mountain in the tournament, using a mare in heat.

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What an odd bit of added detail...

well it is how he did it

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Mountain in the tournament, using a mare in heat.

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What an odd bit of added detail...

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Why is that odd? They made a big deal out of it in that episode...and the Moutain killed his horse over the issue.

Just struck me as funny to include not only that he was unhorsed, but the reason for which he was unhorsed, is all.

Still making me chuckle. Loras trolled the Mountain hard.

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now having said that, if you remember the scene after renly's death where loras was basically super pissed off and wanted to go kill stannis now, littlefinger was the one to calm him down and try and talk sense into him and margaery. plus littlefinger also visited tywin about a possible alliance, so his hands are in this too

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all i hear is littlefinger

littlefinger is positioning himself to be the kings hand. and i can't wait (as much as I love tyrion, he's just too awesome, before long the lannisters will have everything in line if they follow his advice. so he'll have to die soon, geoffry or cersei's doing.) and then we'll see the rise of house baelish.

I don't remember that at all in that episode

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I think that is the plan. Or to kill off joffrey and replace him with a more suitable lannistar?

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Joffery is not a lannister... his uncle would never be able to replace him on the throne. That honor would go to his brother, Tommen.

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Renly

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Yeah I failed on that one. Oops.

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Still making me chuckle. Loras trolled the Mountain hard.

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I thought it was funny too. Loras is an interesting character. Flamboyant homo but also a great warrior and cunning to boot.

Whose horse was flowing and what role did it play in the jousting tournament?

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And they no longer need Joffrey to marry Sansa because an alliance with the North / Starks is impossible now.

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Not necessarily. She's useful because if they defeat Robb and the other two boys, Sansa is heir to Winterfell. Then Joffrey and his heirs would have "true" rights to the north and potentially more acceptable.

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Whose horse was flowing and what role did it play in the jousting tournament?

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Loras (flower dude) used a mare in heat to disturb the Mountain's horse. With Mountain's horse distracted and riding all erratically, Loras was able to unseat him in the joust.

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I think that is the plan. Or to kill off joffrey and replace him with a more suitable lannistar?

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Joffery is not a lannister... his uncle would never be able to replace him on the throne. That honor would go to his brother, Tommen.

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Well by that logic Dany Targaryan should be on the throne. You're not quite sure how this "game" is played are you?

Well I think there's a difference between overthrowing a ruler by force and just arbitrarily changing who king/queen is once you have power.

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Well I think there's a difference between overthrowing a ruler by force and just arbitrarily changing who king/queen is once you have power

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No doubt. You mean like Cersei having the power and positioning/protecting Joffery and making him king even thought he isn't a Baratheon? So if Tywinn thinks Joffery is a psycho idiot and something happens to him (like Tyrion, Arya, Robb Stark, Stannis, Khaleesi all want) then what's to keep him from naming Jaime Lannister as King Regent (ala Ned Stark) until Tommen is old enough? Not saying that's my prediction, but the whole thing is a chess match. Littlefinger, Varys, Tyrion, Tywinn....Cersei to a lesser degree....they're all playing.

Because Jamie Lannister is a member of the Kingsguard and shall hold no titles or lands. "King Regent" is a title.

I suppose he could strip Jamie from the Kingsguard, but I doubt it.

I think it is more likely that Tywin strips Cersei of her Queen Regent power (since she's mucking things up) and he himself takes over the role he was supposed to (Hand of the King) and becomes the defacto King while trying to keep Joffrey in line. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't set well with Cersei, Joffrey OR Tyrion, but it seems like the logical thing to do.


And Cersei didn't "make" Joffrey King. As far as 90% of Westeros knows, he is King by rights. The 10% who know the truth are in the north or just got blowed up in Blackwater Bay.

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And Cersei didn't "make" Joffrey King. As far as 90% of Westeros knows, he is King by rights. The 10% who know the truth are in the north or just got blowed up in Blackwater Bay

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Sure she did. She had as much hand in it as anyone. The entire small council knew....and they worked with her.

Well, that's a lot easier than someone coming in and saying "OK everyone, meet your new king: Hodor".

There was at least some relative basis in truth for the masses, and those playing the "game" mostly went along in order to stay in power and not get gutted by Lannister guards.

It's almost like the whole thing is a game...a game of thrones.

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mostly went along in order to stay in power and not get gutted by Lannister guards

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So you're saying the Lannisters put their own guy in as king?

Nope, Cersei is a Baratheon!

Unless she hyphenated or did some hippy-liberal marriage crap.

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It's almost like the whole thing is a game...a game of thrones.

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