Mr President Elect said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Mr President Elect said:

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Harry Lime said:

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I was flipping thru the radio on the road today, and stopped on a "sports" talk show from Houston with hosts who love to take shots at conservative politicians. So they started in on Marco Rubio and his comments about taking these observations seriously in light of the upcoming Senate report. Naturally, they started mocking him and going off on tangents to make it all seem absurd. They thought it would be hilarious if this came up when ran for office again.

Who needs a government cover-up when so many media wise asses are ready to make a joke of the whole thing?

We've been at this same point since the 1970's, no matter how many credible sources come out:
https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/14/archives/ufo-files-the-untold-story.html

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https://kfor.com/mystery-wire/us-senator-talks-about-ufos-aliens-and-roswell-in-new-interview/

Well it's bipartisan now... not to mention Harry Reid championed the investigations previously, but at least having two active senators on opposite sides of the isle will slow the media and public down on picking an arbitrary side.

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The same guy that perpetuated the lie about Mitt Romney not paying his taxes to influence the 2012 election ("Well, Obama won didn't he?") is probably not the person you want as a spokesman for this issue if you want others to take it seriously. But I guess it was inevitable that politicians would see an opening for the spotlight. Haven't heard Rubio's comments on it yet, but I would imagine it's something those currently holding office will have to handle in a calculated way.

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So are you saying to carry on with calling out Rubio's comments as being a nutjob??

Before I flag this post as thread derailing, maybe you can clear up the reference of me mentioning that it is bi-partisan and Mit Romney's taxes are correlated. This is just ignorantly missing the point I was making to make a political statement. I get it, blue is bad, I am not even blue, but this site as a whole can be so annoying at times because the majority's political leanings has to be forced down everyone's throat at every opportunity.

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Sounds like you're overreacting and taking this personally. I'm not calling anyone a nutjob. I have no doubt politicians from both sides will interject. In the grand scheme, I think many from both parties simply won't be viewed as trustworthy. Harry Reid was Senate Majority Leader at one point, a pretty important leadership role. He was fine with perpetuating lies for political gain and shrugged it off when later confronted on it (Romney's taxes)...so I'm just not sure he's the best spokesman for the subject of UFO's. That's all I'm saying. I don't think Trump would be a good spokesman for the subject of UFO's either. There was plenty of interjecting of politics in this thread before my post. Calm down.

There are a lot of other reasons to be interested and/or suspicious of Reid's role:
https://www.vox.com/2017/12/16/16785122/ufos-harry-reid-pentagon-defense-blink-182

Yeah, I know it's Vox, but I linked to them because this link covers independent articles from Politico and the NY Times.

Reid was tied to a Nevada investor with an interest in gov't aerospace contracts (Bigelow). Reid got a DoD threat identification program funded for $22 million. This is where Lou Elizondo supposedly worked, and then resigned because he wasn't taken seriously. Elizondo is now tied to To the Stars Academy, an ambiguous business/research entity that was backed by Bigelow.

And oh yea, Bigelow is also the owner of Skinwalker Ranch.

Just FYI, both Elizondo and Mellon left To the Stars Academy earlier this year. The reason given was that TTSA was/is becoming too much of an entertainment brand. Elizondo says he's still friends with those guys but thought he could be more effective on his own. Sounds like it's the same for Mellon.

Oh most definitely. Lots of pet projects in the home states of big politicians. I'm sure defense pet projects also play a role in this too. I remember Robert Gates, after his time under GWB and Obama, mentioning how difficult it was to make cuts because no one wanted to lose their slice of the pie.

Makes it really hard to determine who can be trusted. So many agendas at play.

Damn, this looks good. Only problem is it's an Australian production and not airing here in the states yet

Proud to announce that the @7NewsSpotlight
documentary on my forthcoming UFO book #INPLAINSIGHT will air this coming Sunday night. We explore what is a very confronting new reality for humanity. And the experts now admit...IT IS REAL. Trailer here: pic.twitter.com/0atupScWZh

— Ross Coulthart (@rosscoulthart) May 24, 2021

aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Fair enough, and I apologize.

In this particular instance, I *do* appreciate how willing you are to do the research.

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I found this video of a former F-16 and F-18 pilot (rare combo.. usually you only do AF or Navy.. but not both).


I pretty much agree with his assessment. He mentioned that the range on the TFLIR is calculated by "doing trig", which is pretty much how EOTS does it too (little more to it than that). That contradicts what Cmdr. David Fravor said which was that it was "being jammed" (which didn't make sense to me). TFLIR is a passive system (meaning it doesn't emit anything like radar waves) and so it's not something you would jam. And it doesn't make sense that they would display radar specific symbology on the TRLIR page anyway. Again, not calling Fravor a liar, I just don't think he understands how that stuff works.

Quote:

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As for the videos themselves, they were leaked in 2017 by government officials to Christopher Mellon, not officially released by the Pentagon. The Pentagon only confirmed they were real just this past year. Word is, the longer versions show some pretty crazy maneuvers, but whoever Mellon's contacts are only gave him these brief snippets, for whatever reasons. That *does* seem somewhat convenient, I'll admit, but Mellon comes across as one of the most trustworthy individuals in this whole ordeal, and I will continue to trust him until proven otherwise.

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So I'm not very trusting of people (especially of politicians). So I'm trying to figure out the angle. Who does it benefit to release this? And to now confirm it? So far, I can't figure that out. If there is nothing classified on the TFLIR symbology we see already, then I see no reason why not to release the crazy maneuvers. And in the video I posted above makes it appear that the government did provide official copies. So they decided to release truncated videos. If Biden looked like he was going to cut navy funding, then I would think this was a ploy to reverse that. But it appears Biden is not doing that. Maybe Fravor is going to write a book? But that doesn't explain why the pentagon confirmed the videos.

I'm still pondering the various motivations of everybody involved.

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The Pentagon eventually provided official copies of the footage that had already been released, yes. However, the original footage provided to Mellon, that ran in the infamous 2017 New York Times article, was leaked/not official.

As for the explanation that has been given by Elizondo and the like, as to why the Pentagon is now taking a more transparent approach overall, as I said earlier in the thread, pilots are starting to see and report these things *so much* - literally on a DAILY basis, according to pilot testimony from the 60 Minutes piece and other sources - that the Pentagon could no longer continue to sweep these encounters under the rug or turn a blind eye. So many pilots started to report these things, come forward, and at times make public statements, that the Pentagon finally decided to try and get in front of the narrative and acknowledge it publicly.

That, and, according to Elizondo and Mellon, there *are* those within the Pentagon who want this information made public, who want all the videos and imagery they have released, who think this phenomenon is too important to keep under lock and key, who think the public deserves to know the truth (even if the truth is "We don't know what these are"), etc. And on the other side of that token, Elizondo has even spoken about a contingent of ultra-religious government officials who, based on the evidence the Pentagon has, believe the phenomenon is real, but believe it to be Satanic in nature, and think that engaging with it will open some kind of portal to Hell or or whatever, so they want it shut down and ignored at every turn. Those would obviously be the extreme cases, but either way, the point is, it doesn't sound like the Pentagon is completely in sync as to what the public should or shouldn't know.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Fair enough, and I apologize.

In this particular instance, I *do* appreciate how willing you are to do the research.

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I found this video of a former F-16 and F-18 pilot (rare combo.. usually you only do AF or Navy.. but not both).


I pretty much agree with his assessment. He mentioned that the range on the TFLIR is calculated by "doing trig", which is pretty much how EOTS does it too (little more to it than that). That contradicts what Cmdr. David Fravor said which was that it was "being jammed" (which didn't make sense to me). TFLIR is a passive system (meaning it doesn't emit anything like radar waves) and so it's not something you would jam. And it doesn't make sense that they would display radar specific symbology on the TRLIR page anyway. Again, not calling Fravor a liar, I just don't think he understands how that stuff works.

Quote:

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As for the videos themselves, they were leaked in 2017 by government officials to Christopher Mellon, not officially released by the Pentagon. The Pentagon only confirmed they were real just this past year. Word is, the longer versions show some pretty crazy maneuvers, but whoever Mellon's contacts are only gave him these brief snippets, for whatever reasons. That *does* seem somewhat convenient, I'll admit, but Mellon comes across as one of the most trustworthy individuals in this whole ordeal, and I will continue to trust him until proven otherwise.

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So I'm not very trusting of people (especially of politicians). So I'm trying to figure out the angle. Who does it benefit to release this? And to now confirm it? So far, I can't figure that out. If there is nothing classified on the TFLIR symbology we see already, then I see no reason why not to release the crazy maneuvers. And in the video I posted above makes it appear that the government did provide official copies. So they decided to release truncated videos. If Biden looked like he was going to cut navy funding, then I would think this was a ploy to reverse that. But it appears Biden is not doing that. Maybe Fravor is going to write a book? But that doesn't explain why the pentagon confirmed the videos.

I'm still pondering the various motivations of everybody involved.

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Given that the vast majority of UFO sightings, including those acknowledged by our government recently, have definitive or very plausible natural/understood explanations I'm leaning toward this being the shiny object to distract the masses (so to speak).

What's more likely, that an advanced extraterrestrial race is spying on us (but despite their interstellar travel capabilities are constantly being accidentally spotted by our relatively trivial species) or politicians are being less than completely honest with you?

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I just don't see how anyone could listen to the testimony from these pilots and think they're all in on some kind government-sanctioned, distract-the-masses plot. Especially when we hear from pilots like Cmdr. Alex Dietrich, who refused to come forward for 15 YEARS until last week on 60 Minutes, to corroborate the encounter Fravor and others finally came forward with in 2017. Her reason being that so many of her fellow pilots are seeing these things more and more that she doesn't want them to be afraid to come forward. She wants to lead by example. And every last one of these pilots who have come forward has come across as beyond sincere and beyond credible. Again, pilots who were the best in the world at what they did, who the government trusted with multi-million-dollar equipment to protect us. These people are literally some of the best and brightest among us.

I'll keep saying this over and over and over again... in a vacuum, each individual aspect of this phenomenon can be explained away, no doubt. But when you look at what's happening AS A WHOLE, and consider ALL THE EVIDENCE (circumstantial and otherwise), it's virtually impossible that all of the people and reports and testimony and admissions and tracking data and video - over decades - are either part of some government con job or coverup, or are part of some mass delusion/synchronized technological tracking error.

The sooner people finally admit that this is a REAL phenomenon, and that these craft DO exist, the faster we can get to the bottom of who, exactly, is controlling these things, be it us, another country, or, yes, perhaps even extra/ultraterrestrials.

https://t.co/9v4BTv8neJ

— tylercowen (@tylercowen) May 23, 2021

Yeah that satanic stuff makes me question that dudes sources and judgement altogether.

And pilots are not infallible. They are smarter than the average enlisted man, but it's not like they are geniuses or anything. As fantastic and inexplicable their eyewitness testimony is, I find it odd that we don't see any of that on TFLIR video and that those are truncated. Everything on video is reasonably explainable.

Malibu2 said:

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Decay said:

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I'd like to ask the question... Can I be a little suspicious why our Texags Hollywood guy is now one of our biggest UFO posters?

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Adrenochrome has that effect.

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I also have it on good authority he has a mole baby.

G Martin 87 said:

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Decay said:

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I'd like to ask the question... Can I be a little suspicious why our Texags Hollywood guy is now one of our biggest UFO posters?

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I assume you mean "UFO = non-hu-mons" posters rather than "UFO = literally means unidentifed because we haven't figured it out yet" posters? Two different camps.

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No I'm not worried about whether or not TCCTS is Pizzagate or whatever.

Just saying, he's the closest thing we have to a Hollywood insider. Politics and celebs form an incredibly incestuous relationship. If we're musing about the government pushing UFO theories to distract people, wouldn't it follow Hollywood will follow suit? Isn't 60 Minutes just an offshoot of entertainment anyway?

Sea Speed said:

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So now there is an ultra religious sect of the pentagon that think these magical flying things are SATANIC. Surely you are able to step back and see the absurdity, but probably not seeing as you took personal offense to an expert giving detailed information because you didn't like what was said and by whom it was said.

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First of all, you clearly must not know who aTmAg is, and what he's notorious for on this forum. There's a long history there, and my (and so many others' here) "personal offense" is rooted in years of him acting the "expert" on multiple subjects; someone who'd argue with a wall if you let him. That said, in this particular instance, he at least seems to know what he's talking about (though I wouldn't doubt there are some holes in his argument). And like I said, I *do* appreciate his willingness to dive in and research. That, and I've gone out of my way to listen to and consider other opposing theories here, acknowledge many of the more credible ones, and doubt many of the more outlandish claims on "my" side of the argument.

However, the aliens-are-satanic theme is a *very* common view among those who believe in the phenomenon on the religious right. There are countless books/articles written on the subject. Hell, go read the UFO thread on forum 16 and you'll find that's one of the primary discussion points, with religious folk peddling/preaching that argument ad nauseam, which is exactly what I was speaking to in my original post on this thread as a topic I wanted to avoid here. Further, we have those in government whose interest in things like aiding Israel is motivated primarily by their believe that they're helping usher in the eventual second coming of Christ, who constantly invoke their Biblical views when it comes to things like gay rights, and let their religious views in general shade so much of their overall policy making. We know for a fact that Congress was briefed on the subject of UAPs relatively recently, were privy to information the public doesn't have, and many of them (including Rubio) came out of that meeting concerned enough to start advocating hard for transparency. So is it really that much of a leap to believe that the most religious of the bunch, who have seen much of the same evidence (and more) would do what they always do and let their religious views color their opinions and policy making?

Unless I'm asking a question, assume that I know what I'm talking about when I post. I don't post on topics otherwise.

aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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The kinematics is exactly why that video is so interesting. Something shaped like that with visible means of propulsion should not be moving that fast from our understanding. You have a good frame of reference in the waves at the velocity this thing is moving at. You also have constant velocity with a steady vector which means powered flight of some sort.

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Like I mentioned above. I've seen ground targets (like buildings) shoot off a TFLIR video (like when the camera pans through a singularity). The flying off of TFLIR video should not be the evidence people use. That happens quite often.

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You've seen a building detached from the ground traveling at speed through the air in relation to the background and a moving POV from above for 20+ seconds?

Sea Speed said:

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So now there is an ultra religious sect of the pentagon that think these magical flying things are SATANIC. Surely you are able to step back and see the absurdity, but probably not seeing as you took personal offense to an expert giving detailed information because you didn't like what was said and by whom it was said.

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You understand the fallacy of taking a sub topic ideal independent of the main topic and applying it to the entire thing, right?

Humans are stupid, fearful creatures that will append absurd explanations in vain attempts to get their minds to understand what they are seeing. Taking that absurdity and applying it wholesale across the entire board is disingenuous.

G Martin 87 said:

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Decay said:

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I'd like to ask the question... Can I be a little suspicious why our Texags Hollywood guy is now one of our biggest UFO posters?

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I assume you mean "UFO = non-hu-mons" posters rather than "UFO = literally means unidentifed because we haven't figured it out yet" posters? Two different camps.

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It's quite frustrating at times. This is an umbrella range yet society is stuck thinking you are some dimwit alone in the forest with a sweet aluminum foil suit who drinks their own pee if you are not adamant that there is absolutely nothing going on that we don't know about.

It's hard to get across that I like being alone and it is just emergency mylar because it is cheap and efficient and so what, I like the taste of it.

In seriousness though, the instant you proclaim that there is a possibility of life elsewhere that could be a cause of some of the odd things we see on earth, you are a straight loon to most.

Eliminatus said:

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aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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The kinematics is exactly why that video is so interesting. Something shaped like that with visible means of propulsion should not be moving that fast from our understanding. You have a good frame of reference in the waves at the velocity this thing is moving at. You also have constant velocity with a steady vector which means powered flight of some sort.

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Like I mentioned above. I've seen ground targets (like buildings) shoot off a TFLIR video (like when the camera pans through a singularity). The flying off of TFLIR video should not be the evidence people use. That happens quite often.

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You've seen a building detached from the ground traveling at speed through the air in relation to the background and a moving POV from above for 20+ seconds?

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I saw a TFLIR loose point track lock on a building and stop panning causing the building (and everything else in the frame) shoot off to the side of the picture.

(in the 2004 video there was nothing in the background)

aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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The kinematics is exactly why that video is so interesting. Something shaped like that with visible means of propulsion should not be moving that fast from our understanding. You have a good frame of reference in the waves at the velocity this thing is moving at. You also have constant velocity with a steady vector which means powered flight of some sort.

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Like I mentioned above. I've seen ground targets (like buildings) shoot off a TFLIR video (like when the camera pans through a singularity). The flying off of TFLIR video should not be the evidence people use. That happens quite often.

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You've seen a building detached from the ground traveling at speed through the air in relation to the background and a moving POV from above for 20+ seconds?

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I saw a TFLIR loose point track lock on a building and stop panning causing the building (and everything else in the frame) shoot off to the side of the picture.

(in the 2004 video there was nothing in the background)

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Ummm.....That is not even close to what happened in that video. What are you even talking about? Are we talking about the same vid? I'm referring to the naval tic tac one. Is that the 2004 one?

As posted a while back, I think people underestimate the level of technology governments posses and their willingness to share it.

My guess is these are something top secret that (hopefully) we have and are testing something.

Eliminatus said:

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aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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aTmAg said:

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Eliminatus said:

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The kinematics is exactly why that video is so interesting. Something shaped like that with visible means of propulsion should not be moving that fast from our understanding. You have a good frame of reference in the waves at the velocity this thing is moving at. You also have constant velocity with a steady vector which means powered flight of some sort.

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Like I mentioned above. I've seen ground targets (like buildings) shoot off a TFLIR video (like when the camera pans through a singularity). The flying off of TFLIR video should not be the evidence people use. That happens quite often.

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You've seen a building detached from the ground traveling at speed through the air in relation to the background and a moving POV from above for 20+ seconds?

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I saw a TFLIR loose point track lock on a building and stop panning causing the building (and everything else in the frame) shoot off to the side of the picture.

(in the 2004 video there was nothing in the background)

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Ummm.....That is not even close to what happened in that video. What are you even talking about? Are we talking about the same vid? I'm referring to the naval tic tac one. Is that the 2004 one?

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Yep tic-tac one. Not sure what video you are talking about.

James Fox

Should always listen to him IMO

https://theunexplained.tv/episodes/edition-547-james-fox-jeremy-corbell-sean-cahill

The quality of the authenticated UFO/UAP video is lousy. Do not imagine that this low quality video is the major data trove that has us discussing the unimaginable.

The truly major data in support of UFOs that we have as of today is simply the change in the official narrative.

— Eric Weinstein (@EricRWeinstein) May 23, 2021

I’d guess that we’re at some point soon going to be confronted by stunningly clear reconstructions of incidents with crystal clear video, and that we have a collective freakout ahead where we’ll look back and marvel how they dribbled low quality video out to control our reaction.

— Eric Weinstein (@EricRWeinstein) May 23, 2021

One of the pilots from the 60 Minutes piece...

(2/6) ‘cube in a sphere’ objects we’d see regularly. I say this as their Target Aspect indicator seemed a bit jittery- as if the radar had difficulty determining which way the vehicle was pointing even though they were proceeding in a straight line.

— Ryan Graves (@uncertainvector) May 24, 2021

(4/6) not a ‘clean’ formation turn. The vehicles seemed to break formation to a certain extent but reposition to their original formation as they rolled out on the opposite heading. The GIMBAL object was stationary (as seen in the video) as the turn was executed. Once the wedge

— Ryan Graves (@uncertainvector) May 24, 2021

(6/6) For the record, after seeing 100s of aircraft and countless other air and ground based objects through the FLIR, I have never seen anything like GIMBAL. I think it's clear the Aircrew in the video feel the same way.

— Ryan Graves (@uncertainvector) May 24, 2021