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60 MINUTES this Sunday...[UFO Report]

97,684 Views | 1087 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Rocagnante
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Mick West is a skeptic, which means he operates from the belief that any potentially supernatural phenomena likely has a fairly rational explanation that doesn't require changing our whole understanding of reality.

I think you are little too caught up in your beliefs of UFOs to think about this rationally. The only people that respond like this to Mick West tend to be hardcore UFO/supernatural believers, and actually, when you look up Mick West on reddit, literally the only sub who seems to have an issue with him is r/UFO who are obviously unbiased. I've watched videos of people "debunking" Mick West, and most are too nitpicky, and don't address the underlying message that West tries to convey in his videos which is that there is clearly rational, earthbound, extraordinarily more likely scenarios to explain these phenomena.

This is nothing against you, TCTTS. I think you are typically very rational, and are a good poster. Nevertheless, your reactions here are quite similar to the things you rant against with regard to people on 16 chan. I don't think it is weird at all to claim with confidence that the likelihood that aliens are secretly visiting earth is so astronomically low that to even entertain the idea is not really worth the mental effort. I think of it the same way I do the Loch Ness monster or bigfoot.

And as for AMW2010's question, I'm an atheist.

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TCTTS
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AG
You didn't use the word "likelihood" in your original post. You posted your opinion as fact, which is what I was responding to.

As for the overall subject matter, I feel that I'm being relatively reasonable, given the circumstances. I've said time and again that the vast majority of these sightings are likely bunk, that most of the enthusiast/talking heads aren't highly reputable, that Bob Lazar is likely full of crap, that shows like Ancient Aliens are a bunch of a hoo-ha, etc. I'm passionate about the subject matter, but I'm as skeptical as they come for someone who believes this is a real phenomenon. I just can't hand-wave it all away as easily as you can, and I enjoy the (sometimes heated) discussion with those like yourself, when you do.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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I used the term likelihood loosely as evidenced by my reference to the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot. Do I know with 100% certainty they are not real? Well I'm about as certain as I am that the universe is not sitting on top of a gigantic turtle.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TCTTS
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AG


Quote:

On Fox News, John Ratcliffe, the former director of national intelligence, was given the opportunity to play down the report, which began under his tenure, and he declined. "When we talk about sightings," he said, "we are talking about objects that have been seen by Navy or Air Force pilots, or have been picked up by satellite imagery, that frankly engage in actions that are difficult to explain, movements that are hard to replicate, that we don't have the technology for, or traveling at speeds that exceed the sound barrier without a sonic boom." Nor are these just eyewitness accounts, made by fallible human observers. "Usually, we have multiple sensors that are picking up these things," he said.

Perhaps Ratcliffe, a former member of Congress whose sole stint in intelligence came at the tail end of the Trump administration, is simply hyping his work. But that doesn't explain why a former C.I.A. director, John Brennan, said in an interview with the economist Tyler Cowen that "some of the phenomena we're going to be seeing continues to be unexplained and might, in fact, be some type of phenomenon that is the result of something that we don't yet understand and that could involve some type of activity that some might say constitutes a different form of life." Well then.
Quote:

There is a thick literature on how evidence of alien life would shake the world's religions, but I think Brother Guy Consolmagno, director of the Vatican Observatory, is quite likely right when he suggests that many people would simply say, "of course." The materialist worldview that positions humanity as an island of intelligence in a potentially empty cosmos my worldview, in other words is the aberration. Most people believe, and have always believed, that we share both the Earth and the cosmos with other beings gods, spirits, angels, ghosts, ancestors. The norm throughout human history has been a crowded universe where other intelligences are interested in our comings and goings, and even shape them. The whole of human civilization is testament to the fact that we can believe we are not alone and still obsess over earthly concerns.
Quote:

There's a school of thought that says interplanetary ambitions are ridiculous when we have so many terrestrial crises. I disagree. I believe our unsolved problems reflect a lack of unifying goals more than a surfeit of them. America made it to the moon in the same decade it created Medicare and Medicaid and passed the Civil Rights Act, and I don't believe that to be coincidence.
Mr President Elect
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So your explanation of the Nimitz that you are going with is that the Navy is just ****ing with us? That they are leaking videos of passenger jets and saying we have no idea what this is?? I mean maybe, and that would be part of the whole lets freak out the other countries so they can waste time and defense money conspiracy. Previously they were diverted from their test missions to check out that "passenger jet" because of the curious things showing up on radar. I'm not saying it is aliens, but I am probably even a bit more skeptical when you take a small piece of the event and say yep airlplane, case solved, and then ignore all the different testimonies from people seeing from different accounts, (ie multple jets, multiple missions, radar techs, etc...). I get that eye witness testimony is very unreliable, but this being chalked up as a passenger jet almost seems more unbelievable than it being something that we aren't sure what it is.
Aust Ag
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AG
Well, like I asked earlier but no one answered, why don't these Air Force jets go in for closer looks at these objects instead of just riding along in the distance, filming?
Mr President Elect
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AG
The Navy jet, Fravor, did. He wasn't the one that filmed the interaction, so you just have his account and the other pilot that was with him that stayed back while he went in. Once he got closer it started mirroring his movement and didn't allow him to get closer, and then it shot off to the point where the pilots were at (about 70 miles away) when they got diverted from their training to investigate (this was what the radar tech said anyways).
Lathspell
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My problem with the whole thing is this:

If the government is potentially releasing information on this phenomena, then they must be 100% certain it is extraterrestrial or supernatural.

If there is even a 0.000000000001% chance it is advanced tech from another country, they are basically admitting to this other country that they are far and away advanced beyond our capabilities. The government keeps our true technological advances a secret, but the message has always been, "we are further than you. Don't try anything, or you will see just how far we are." Outright admission that we are behind is the biggest mistake we could make.

As for my actual thoughts on ETs:

I personally don't believe in extraterrestrial life, but I truly don't know where I sit on parallel universes or the possibility of future time travel. I would assume if a being of some form has the ability to manipulate spacetime to travel the cosmos, then it can also manipulate space time to travel through time. If that's the case, I would be amazed how any being can do so and not collapse the space time continuum by screwing everything up, unless that being is infallible. If said being is infallible, then it would not be crashing all over our planet.

I am a Christian and believe in the supernatural world. I do, admittedly, begin evaluating everything from that base worldview. If sometime the existence of ET life were to be proven, then I will reevaluate how that fits into the truth I believe in.
Agristotle
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AG
What we don't know is greater than what we know.
TCTTS
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Mr President Elect said:

So your explanation of the Nimitz that you are going with is that the Navy is just ****ing with us? That they are leaking videos of passenger jets and saying we have no idea what this is?? I mean maybe, and that would be part of the whole lets freak out the other countries so they can waste time and defense money conspiracy. Previously they were diverted from their test missions to check out that "passenger jet" because of the curious things showing up on radar. I'm not saying it is aliens, but I am probably even a bit more skeptical when you take a small piece of the event and say yep airlplane, case solved, and then ignore all the different testimonies from people seeing from different accounts, (ie multple jets, multiple missions, radar techs, etc...). I get that eye witness testimony is very unreliable, but this being chalked up as a passenger jet almost seems more unbelievable than it being something that we aren't sure what it is.


The Nimitz case is so crucial because there's simply no other explanation than A) we have secret tech capable of manipulating gravity/space-time, traveling over ten thousand mph without creating a sonic boom, and effortlessly traversing both air and water, B) a foreign adversary has secret tech capable of manipulating gravity/space-time, traveling over ten thousand mph without creating a sonic boom, and effortlessly traversing both air and water, or C) it's extra/ultra terrestrial. Too many pilots saw the craft with their own eyes, one pilot engaged and interacted with it, multiple tracking systems registered the object and confirmed its speed/maneuvers, AND we caught it on video. Not to mention, these were literally the best fighter pilots in the world, and the fleet they were with was using literally the most state of the art tracking systems we have.

Anyone who dismisses this incident as hallucinations, misidentification of craft, or claims that the entire encounter was conjured out of thin air by our government and those who participated in the event, either doesn't know the facts of the case and hasn't heard the myriad witness testimony, or is being willfully obtuse.
TCTTS
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AG
Agristotle said:

What we don't know is greater than what we know.


This.
AggieLitigator
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Agristotle said:

What we don't know is greater than what we know.


I'm 100% going to use that line in a closing argument soon. Love it.
AMW2010
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AG
?itemid=17873583
TCTTS
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aggiedata
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AG
I was fascinated with UFOs long before this episode of the Brady Bunch.



I have seen some stuff as well as a airline passenger. Love to hear some of Southlake's stories.
videoag98
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I'm agnostic. The science part of me thinks this is a a high tech super secret
technology using laser plasma technology to project images in the 3d space, think a laser pointer
except for 3d images. You could flick it across the sky and it would seem unnatural to our eyes.
A crude version of this has been around for over a decade. I image our Navy has Top secret that
could fool adversaries during warfare, and possibly with the videos being leaked, their best thing to say would be well we don't know what they are.

However, I do have to believe we are not the only species in this universe, but I have a hard time
believing they would come this far in space ships.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/05/11/us-navy-laser-creates-plasma-ufos/?sh=2cb73bb51074
OldArmyAggie94
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I love 60 Minutes, I will be watching.. Not sure about UFOs...
TCTTS
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You know, the laser plasma hologram tech theory or whatever is at least a decent alternative theory that doesn't require thousands of people to have been hallucinating or misidentifying natural phenomenon. Granted, it doesn't account for eight decades of continual sightings, but it's at least not a head-in-sand theory.

As for the vast distances an extraterrestrial species would have to travel, I think we need to get that out of our heads as valid reasoning as to why they wouldn't be here. If these things are, in fact, extraterrestrial craft, and are, in fact, doing the things these pilots are saying, and the tracking systems are registering, distance is irrelevant to them. Again, they've mastered gravity/space-time, speed-of-light is a non-factor, and they can basically go anywhere they want as fast as they want. Especially if they've figured out some kind of quantum teleportation or are inter dimensional. At that point, distance would be nothing more than a human concern/construct.
TCTTS
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OldArmyAggie94 said:

I love 60 Minutes, I will be watching.. Not sure about UFOs...

60 Minutes is one of my favorite all-time shows, and I've watched it nearly every week going on two decades now. I know it's yet another irrationally "cancelled" show by F16 and the like, but IMO, that usually tells me it's something actually worth watching.

In terms of what we might learn tomorrow night, I don't expect anything groundbreaking. Rather, what's exciting is that it's simply a highly respected, wide-reaching news show that's finally discussing the topic in a serious manner. It's more the megaphone that tomorrow night will bring, rather than content itself. Though, I'm sure for a ton of people this is going to be plenty eye-opening.
Definitely Not A Cop
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TCTTS said:

You know, the laser plasma hologram tech theory or whatever is at least a decent alternative theory that doesn't require thousands of people to have been hallucinating or misidentifying natural phenomenon. Granted, it doesn't account for eight decades of continual sightings, but it's at least not a head-in-sand theory.

As for the vast distances an extraterrestrial species would have to travel, I think we need to get that out of our heads as valid reasoning as to why they wouldn't be here. If these things are, in fact, extraterrestrial craft, and are, in fact, doing the things these pilots are saying, and the tracking systems are registering, distance is irrelevant to them. Again, they've mastered gravity/space-time, speed-of-light is a non-factor, and they can basically go anywhere they want as fast as they want. Especially if they've figured out some kind of quantum teleportation or are inter dimensional. At that point, distance would be nothing more than a human concern/construct.


I don't really buy the time travel theory. I don't think we would ever see people travel back in time, because if you did, you would be creating a new timeline in a parallel dimension. So maybe we invent it, but every time it's used it's creating a new timeline branching out.
YouBet
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AG
Southlake said:

I have 20k hours in the air and you wouldn't believe some of the freaky unexplained things I've seen up there.


TCTTS
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Champ Bailey said:

TCTTS said:

You know, the laser plasma hologram tech theory or whatever is at least a decent alternative theory that doesn't require thousands of people to have been hallucinating or misidentifying natural phenomenon. Granted, it doesn't account for eight decades of continual sightings, but it's at least not a head-in-sand theory.

As for the vast distances an extraterrestrial species would have to travel, I think we need to get that out of our heads as valid reasoning as to why they wouldn't be here. If these things are, in fact, extraterrestrial craft, and are, in fact, doing the things these pilots are saying, and the tracking systems are registering, distance is irrelevant to them. Again, they've mastered gravity/space-time, speed-of-light is a non-factor, and they can basically go anywhere they want as fast as they want. Especially if they've figured out some kind of quantum teleportation or are inter dimensional. At that point, distance would be nothing more than a human concern/construct.


I don't really buy the time travel theory. I don't think we would ever see people travel back in time, because if you did, you would be creating a new timeline in a parallel dimension. So maybe we invent it, but every time it's used it's creating a new timeline branching out.

Yeah, that's my least favorite theory for that very reason. But I'll also admit that we ultimately have no idea how any of that would actually work in regards to what the true nature of reality might be. So I'm not leaving anything off the table.
TCTTS
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AG
YouBet said:

Southlake said:

I have 20k hours in the air and you wouldn't believe some of the freaky unexplained things I've seen up there.




I think Southlake got abducted...
videoag98
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I think we also need to get out of the mindset that these are crafts. Maybe these are not crafts but the beings themselves. Whos' to say there has to be a humanoid or any figure siting in a cockpit. I would buy this more than a 'ship'. The whole concept of an interstellar vehicle with occupants, at least to me, seems to be more of an earthly construct.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Yeah, that's why i always liked the concept behind the Altered Carbon series. You don't need to build a space ship, you just need to download consciousness into a computer and shoot it out at the speed of light. Have it print you a new body on the other side.
redline248
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Quote:

I know it's yet another irrationally "cancelled" show by F16 and the like
Is it irrational when the show has been caught flat out lying about stuff?
jeffk
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Y'all can keep your UFO 60 Minutes show. I'll just be over here watching more spousal murder on 48 hours.
Redstone
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Although we have a Religion board, would this be the appropriate thread for my (many) thoughts regarding the religious implications of full disclosure?
Decay
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The phrase "extraordinary until proven overwise" comes to mind here. I love UFO videos and books and have consumed them for probably 25 years by now. I have yet to see a photo or video that is actually compelling evidence.

The Navy videos frankly suck. One is just the camera's rotation. One is... A thing that is moving. One is a blobby thing. The triangular one is obviously an out of focus plane or helicopter, standard navigational lights and all.

Like, I get that there's supposedly some wild story behind them. But there have been incredible UFO stories for eighty years. And there's never incredible video evidence. No good pictures. Fakes outnumber real videos 1000 to 1 and then real but explainable videos another 1000 to 1.

I've grown to realize skepticism isn't just cynicism. I'd love to see a video that is proof. So let's see it.
Jugstore Cowboy
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I'm right there with you. Started listening to Art Bell in the 90's, and have varying degrees of interest in this stuff for over 25 years. Being a "sceptic" often means genuinely wanting to see something new, and not just the latest name playing and old game and making the same old promises of impending revelation. A basic practice in research is to eliminate false leads.

Some die-hard ufo enthusiasts have the religious fervor and faith of hardcore evangelicals or millenialists who always think we're living in the last days and everything is about to change.
Sea Speed
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Men from all over the world told stories of sea creatures and monsters etc as they began taking to the sea so many centuries ago, and the monsters and creatures have all been explained away through observation and the furthering of man's understanding of the natural world. .

I would imagine that this is similar to that as men take to the skies and see things that they can't readily explain, but will make sense in due time.
aTmAg
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I haven't read much off this thread, but I'll leave these tidbits:

1) those here who fly planes will knows this.. that when you get a notification from ATC or ADS system that you are near other aircraft, they might be only 10 nautical miles away. Yet it's still incredibly hard to see them until they are ridiculously close. I have pretty much blown that off and just use the iPad to avoid traffic. I can't understand how's these pilots can see these craft so clearly especially when they supposedly go do ridiculously fast. I have a hard times finding GA aircraft when they are going 120 knots. In short: I doubt these pilots are seeing stuff clearly enough for them to know what they are looking at.

2) Radars get false detections ALL THE TIME. There is a lot of mathematical "magic" to resolve ambiguities and to get enough hits on a target to know what they hell you are painting. And it's very easy for it to miss ID what it's looking at, especially if the mission data load doesn't include that target type. In short: if somebody says, "the radar couldn't identify it", then so what? That happens all the time even when we KNOW what a given target is. And that is not even going into the effects of jamming or any of that.

3) if they don't have a good enough track to get a good TFLIR picture, then there is no way in hell a pilot could ever see it. Our eyeballs are way smaller than EOTS or Sniper pod lenses. Until I see a good TFLIR video, I'm not buying it.
double aught
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YouBet said:

Southlake said:

I have 20k hours in the air and you wouldn't believe some of the freaky unexplained things I've seen up there.



Perfect gif placement.
tk for tu juan
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Arrival is on EPIX2 right now
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Way to suck the entertainment out of Entertainment, guys.

Meanwhile, here's a live look at TCTTS and his sisters' kids getting ready for tonight's episode.

 
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