This is an interesting theory about a missing plotline for the show.
Falcon and The Winter Soldier's Rewritten Storyline - YouTube
Falcon and The Winter Soldier's Rewritten Storyline - YouTube
**The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Discussion Thread**
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Last: 4 yr ago by PatAg
If the Flag Smashers are going to get airtime, they need names and personalities. Right now it's Karli, Asian guy, guy who liked Captain America, and nameless extras or sympathetic citizens.
Sharon's not the power broker. There's only one person in the MCU with the influence, malice, and resources to be the power broker.
The casting for Marvel is usually nails.. but I don't buy into Karli.. she is the first miss for me. oohh my prediction for the blonde .. Sue Storm
The Flagsmashers' cause and rationale for violence is, or at least should be, compelling. Karli doesn't seem like the head of a massive international movement, though(which by the way, with the supposed reach they have they should have some type of high tech setup, so far they have burner phones and borrowed Internet cafes). She comes across as a naive and mostly scared child.
Was Battlestar not a well developed character or was the actor playing him not a good actor? He added nothing to the story for me.
More the former, but a little of the latter...imo.Quinn said:
Was Battlestar not a well developed character or was the actor playing him not a good actor? He added nothing to the story for me.
Yeah Battlestar was fine, but he had very little to do with anything beyond a few lines before Walker went out for that interview and the conversation right before Walker took the serum. When they mentioned in ep2 that Walker had 3 medals of honor I thought to myself "that dude probably just needs to spend the rest of his life dragging a plow and watching stuff grow, with a therapy session or three each month." Seems like Battlestar was one of the last things holding him together and was to an extent his grounding and/or conscience once he was given the shield.
all right, the U.S. Agent has arrived.
episode 4 was good.
just 2 episodes left to resolve a bunch of things
episode 4 was good.
just 2 episodes left to resolve a bunch of things
I would agree that the focus needs to get back on Sam and Bucky.
Zermo and Walker have kind of dominated the last 2 episodes.
also agree that the Flagsmashers have fallen somewhat flat as the primary villain.
WandaVision really ratcheted up with its middle episodes. Hopefully episode 5 does that for this series
Zermo and Walker have kind of dominated the last 2 episodes.
also agree that the Flagsmashers have fallen somewhat flat as the primary villain.
WandaVision really ratcheted up with its middle episodes. Hopefully episode 5 does that for this series
that makes a lot of sense. probably rewrote the plot as to not upset the China censors.johncAG said:
This is an interesting theory about a missing plotline for the show.
Falcon and The Winter Soldier's Rewritten Storyline - YouTube
...what?FL_Ag1998 said:
If they keep it up with Zemo he's gonna be one of my top villians. Such a fun bad guy. And not Loki bad. Actual bad.
Loki's crimes far outweigh Zemo's. Loki attempted to take over the world and killed at least thousands. I can at least understand Zemo's drive, though I don't condone the way he goes about it.
I feel like there is more criticism with this show than Wandavision, but I am enjoying this so much more.
I love how they handled Walker, Battlestar, Bucky, Zemo, Sam, Wakanda, and pretty much everyone except Carter. I'm not really sure where they're going with her. But I'm open to see what they're going to do. It took me a few episodes to "get" the flag smashers. I really like how there is no true villain and all the lines are blurred. That's more realistic to how the world really is.
I cannot wait to see how they wrap it up. Even though I was team James Barnes as the next Cap, when Sam dons the shield I am going to be so pumped. But I really hope he gets a moment of triumph too. He's the best character in the entire show.
I love how they handled Walker, Battlestar, Bucky, Zemo, Sam, Wakanda, and pretty much everyone except Carter. I'm not really sure where they're going with her. But I'm open to see what they're going to do. It took me a few episodes to "get" the flag smashers. I really like how there is no true villain and all the lines are blurred. That's more realistic to how the world really is.
I cannot wait to see how they wrap it up. Even though I was team James Barnes as the next Cap, when Sam dons the shield I am going to be so pumped. But I really hope he gets a moment of triumph too. He's the best character in the entire show.
That plotline would make SO MUCH more sense and would have been so much better for the show.TexasAggie_02 said:that makes a lot of sense. probably rewrote the plot as to not upset the China censors.johncAG said:
This is an interesting theory about a missing plotline for the show.
Falcon and The Winter Soldier's Rewritten Storyline - YouTube
I should have prefaced my posts that I love this show and look forward to it all week. The nuggets we do get of Sam and Bucky actually developing are awesome. Also in the big fight at the end of the episode Sam turned on his jets for just a split second to throw a super soldier off of him and that was flippin cool.
I'm enjoying it and the change in tone and pace.
I think the whole flag smasher storyline is disjointed by the rework. We would have had an unbelievably relevant show and instead they're kinda biting around the edges of a really meaty dish.
I assume the point would have been that there's an outbreak of disease and it turns out to be related to the super serum. It's hard to tell exactly because the only changes are in flag smasher scenes so who knows what else fit in there.
No it's not perfect but I love the debate within the show itself while still showing what makes someone a hero or a villain. Zemo is compelling and sympathetic but then guns down Karli. Walker is given a layer of nuance and then murders a dude and picks the shield back up, whereas Steve dropped it when he realized he wasn't worthy of it.
Bucky and Sam are 1 group. GRC/Cap another. Flag Smashers 3. Zemo 4. Power broker 5. Sharon Carter 6. Wakandans 7.
There's a lot to unpack and everyone has different agendas that all interweave. I think the show is a study in motivation, justice, and heroes.
I think the whole flag smasher storyline is disjointed by the rework. We would have had an unbelievably relevant show and instead they're kinda biting around the edges of a really meaty dish.
I assume the point would have been that there's an outbreak of disease and it turns out to be related to the super serum. It's hard to tell exactly because the only changes are in flag smasher scenes so who knows what else fit in there.
No it's not perfect but I love the debate within the show itself while still showing what makes someone a hero or a villain. Zemo is compelling and sympathetic but then guns down Karli. Walker is given a layer of nuance and then murders a dude and picks the shield back up, whereas Steve dropped it when he realized he wasn't worthy of it.
Bucky and Sam are 1 group. GRC/Cap another. Flag Smashers 3. Zemo 4. Power broker 5. Sharon Carter 6. Wakandans 7.
There's a lot to unpack and everyone has different agendas that all interweave. I think the show is a study in motivation, justice, and heroes.
So Episode 5....
Do we get a big cameo? Walker making a deal with Mephisto to bring back Hoskins? GRC claiming that was a fake Cap killing someone?
I'd still love to hear more about Falcon's currently life situation. Is he with the Avengers still, but on assignments here and there with the military? Is his tech still supported by Stark Industries? How does he make a living?
For that matter, how does Bucky pay for stuff and do his traveling?
I agree with the earlier comment about the disconnect between episodes. The elderly asian man's story, Torres, and the shrink all got left behind.
Last, does anyone have an ear for accents? Is Karli supposed to be Kiwi? Aussie? South African?
Do we get a big cameo? Walker making a deal with Mephisto to bring back Hoskins? GRC claiming that was a fake Cap killing someone?
I'd still love to hear more about Falcon's currently life situation. Is he with the Avengers still, but on assignments here and there with the military? Is his tech still supported by Stark Industries? How does he make a living?
For that matter, how does Bucky pay for stuff and do his traveling?
I agree with the earlier comment about the disconnect between episodes. The elderly asian man's story, Torres, and the shrink all got left behind.
Last, does anyone have an ear for accents? Is Karli supposed to be Kiwi? Aussie? South African?
I was thinking Irish.
She is supposed to represent a nondescript child left behind by a soldier in an invading army during an imperialist war that tore her country off the map.
Finally got around to watching this.
Absolutely great. Disney continues to shock me by keeping MCU as timely and political as they have.
That bloody shield.....wow. and on Disney+
Absolutely great. Disney continues to shock me by keeping MCU as timely and political as they have.
That bloody shield.....wow. and on Disney+
one thing about Sam...if he's going to be the next Captain America and the moral compass of the show...
he just can't stand around while the people around him are killing other people left and right. Whether it be Zemo, Karli, Walker, even Sharon.
he has to stop them. More action less words
he just can't stand around while the people around him are killing other people left and right. Whether it be Zemo, Karli, Walker, even Sharon.
he has to stop them. More action less words
DallasTeleAg said:...what?FL_Ag1998 said:
If they keep it up with Zemo he's gonna be one of my top villians. Such a fun bad guy. And not Loki bad. Actual bad.
Loki's crimes far outweigh Zemo's. Loki attempted to take over the world and killed at least thousands. I can at least understand Zemo's drive, though I don't condone the way he goes about it.
But neither of them killed a dog contrived in a made reality so they can take a backseat to Agatha Harkness.
W said:
one thing about Sam...if he's going to be the next Captain America and the moral compass of the show...
he just can't stand around while the people around him are killing other people left and right. Whether it be Zemo, Karli, Walker, even Sharon.
he has to stop them. More action less words
I would like to see Sam step up his leadership. He has been too reactionary. Hopefully after seeing what Walker did, he'll step it up.
I'm pretty sure Cap and Falcon have both killed people before. Cap would keep Bucky from killing those cops in civil war, but that's about it. Falcon kicked dudes out of planes/helicopter in the opening scene of the series
Enjoying this but agree with others the Flagsmashers are throw away for me at this point. Get rid of them and let's move on.
At this point, the Powerbroker is going to be a cameo reveal and that's it. And how many times is PB going to text Carli and threaten her before he actually does something about it? She's been getting text threats since Ep1. I'm actually not sure I care anymore about him either.
At this point, I would be fine spending the last two episodes with Sam and Bucky trying to corral a rogue, insane John Walker. It would force Bucky to unleash his full rage.
At this point, the Powerbroker is going to be a cameo reveal and that's it. And how many times is PB going to text Carli and threaten her before he actually does something about it? She's been getting text threats since Ep1. I'm actually not sure I care anymore about him either.
At this point, I would be fine spending the last two episodes with Sam and Bucky trying to corral a rogue, insane John Walker. It would force Bucky to unleash his full rage.
redline248 said:
I'm pretty sure Cap and Falcon have both killed people before. Cap would keep Bucky from killing those cops in civil war, but that's about it. Falcon kicked dudes out of planes/helicopter in the opening scene of the series
Don't think they have killed someone basically begging for their life before who wasn't shooting at them or attacking them in some way.
I just binged E3 and E4. If the aim of all this isn't to get Sam to come to grips with wearing the shield I will be shocked. All of this is about Sam and his growth.
Mathguy64 said:
I just binged E3 and E4. If the aim of all this isn't to get Sam to come to grips with wearing the shield I will be shocked. All of this is about Sam and his growth.
Agreed. Everyone around him is living in the gray and/or is doing evil stuff as means to an end.
He's the lone beacon of light and they are making that point to him and to the viewer.
I think there is a fun contrast between Walker and Bucky.
Walker is leaning into his crazy and willing to do terrible things. Bucky is trying to get over his crazy and atone for the terrible things he's done.
I want another season that's a comedy in the vein of My Name is Bucky Barnes.
Walker is leaning into his crazy and willing to do terrible things. Bucky is trying to get over his crazy and atone for the terrible things he's done.
I want another season that's a comedy in the vein of My Name is Bucky Barnes.
DubFalls said:
I think there is a fun contrast between Walker and Bucky.
Walker is leaning into his crazy and willing to do terrible things. Bucky is trying to get over his crazy and atone for the terrible things he's done.
I want another season that's a comedy in the vein of My Name is Bucky Barnes.
Sam playing the role of Crab man?
Quinn said:
Was Battlestar not a well developed character or was the actor playing him not a good actor? He added nothing to the story for me.
Is it just me... or does this kinda describe Battlestar in a nutshell? I honestly thought it was the same actor at first. In this clip, the scene where he sees the other black guy at the keg is like Sam seeing battlestar and getting out of the jeep in the first episode.
Did anyone see the blood coming out of Walker's ear? Is that supposed to be from a blow to the head, or his the Super Serum causing side effects?
Mathguy64 said:
I just binged E3 and E4. If the aim of all this isn't to get Sam to come to grips with wearing the shield I will be shocked. All of this is about Sam and his growth.
Really, I think marvel is hesitant to really push the boundaries with these shows until they can gauge how well watched they are. This show will end up with Sam taking up the shield. If you never watched this show at all, Sam would be in the same place you saw him at the end of Endgame.
Same with Wandavision. I doubt we see Rambeau or white vision any time soon in the movies. Wouldn't surprise me if in Dr Strange 2, he goes looking for the dark hold. All they have to do is mention that its a book of dark magic so powerful that no one should ever read it. Then we come across wanda who has it. People who haven't watched the show will already know that she is fragile from losing vision and her entire family, so you don't need the show to know where she's at mentally.
Champ Bailey said:
Did anyone see the blood coming out of Walker's ear? Is that supposed to be from a blow to the head, or his the Super Serum causing side effects?
I could easily see the "perfected " serum that doesn't change your physical body not actually being perfected.
Maybe it's just me but it seems the new serum doesn't enhance your personality. Bucky didn't have the same super ego effect like Steve and Red Skull. None of the Flagsmashers seem to either. All they have is enhanced physical skills. Perhaps all the serum does is provide that boost and the Vita Rays (aka gamma radiation) was needed for the other effects.
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