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**The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Discussion Thread**

119,627 Views | 1228 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by PatAg
Jugstore Cowboy
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Quote:

You're forgetting the most logical explanation - she's a figment of the imagination of a young autistic boy staring at a Marvel-branded snow globe.


I'm sorry, was someone talking to me? I was cleaning off my desk and got a little distracted the last day or so.




TCTTS
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dave94
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TCTTS said:




I was just thinking "why weren't they doing one of these?".

I wonder if they'll address any of the rumored plot changes. Looking forward to it!
rhutton125
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I don't think they will. The showrunner has been doing interviews lately and there hasn't been anything very juicy.

Either that means the rumored changes were just rumors (or from very early drafts), or they're staying strong and denying things and just defending the product as-is.
Quad Dog
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Was listening to an episode of How Did This Get Made the other day and Paul Scheer compared the character of John Walker to the stereotypical movie new stepdad.
I thought was a brilliant summary of that character. He's trying too hard to be your dad, you don't want him to be your dad, and you both know he has no real authority over you. At one point he went over the line and grounded you when he shouldn't have (or brutally killed a guy in the show's case)
Jugstore Cowboy
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Quote:

At one point he went over the line and grounded you when he shouldn't have (or brutally killed a guy in the show's case)


I mean, they're both bad.
Decay
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Watched the Assembled episode and I am loving these features. Hearing how actors contextualize their roles is always welcome and adds to the depth of the MCU. These people are bringing so much of themselves into their roles that you start to get more from the characters when you learn about the actors.

Also I have a thought that's tricky to explain but maybe I can.

I am left with a sense of optimism that is currently... elusive maybe? Just, in most media I see, people are so busy scolding and fearmongering about covid and race. I think there's some epiphany in that they can break through, and a show in 2021 has allowed itself on that meta level to have a patriotic black man. And Isaiah is allowed to be celebrated with his part of the exhibit.

I think most media coming out now is still stuck in the first phase: "no self respecting black man would carry that shield". I wonder how they handle that moving forward.
Saxsoon
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Decay said:

Watched the Assembled episode and I am loving these features. Hearing how actors contextualize their roles is always welcome and adds to the depth of the MCU. These people are bringing so much of themselves into their roles that you start to get more from the characters when you learn about the actors.

Also I have a thought that's tricky to explain but maybe I can.

I am left with a sense of optimism that is currently... elusive maybe? Just, in most media I see, people are so busy scolding and fearmongering about covid and race. I think there's some epiphany in that they can break through, and a show in 2021 has allowed itself on that meta level to have a patriotic black man. And Isaiah is allowed to be celebrated with his part of the exhibit.

I think most media coming out now is still stuck in the first phase: "no self respecting black man would carry that shield". I wonder how they handle that moving forward.


It does feel like that. We have some people who allow zero reflection and any criticism of America is heresy. And then other people who only see America as flawed won't allow themselves to see anything positive about our country and want it all to burn to the ground.
AgfromHOU
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I like to think that most people just want America to be a better place and do love the country, regardless of what the media and politicians say. Probably naive of me, but oh well. My favorite part about there being a Captain America is how patriotic the idea is, and what Steve and his successors stand for.
YouBet
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Decay said:

Watched the Assembled episode and I am loving these features. Hearing how actors contextualize their roles is always welcome and adds to the depth of the MCU. These people are bringing so much of themselves into their roles that you start to get more from the characters when you learn about the actors.

Also I have a thought that's tricky to explain but maybe I can.

I am left with a sense of optimism that is currently... elusive maybe? Just, in most media I see, people are so busy scolding and fearmongering about covid and race. I think there's some epiphany in that they can break through, and a show in 2021 has allowed itself on that meta level to have a patriotic black man. And Isaiah is allowed to be celebrated with his part of the exhibit.

I think most media coming out now is still stuck in the first phase: "no self respecting black man would carry that shield". I wonder how they handle that moving forward.
Tend to agree which I think is why several of us commented early on that this particular series was handling the race issue well in that it's been fairly balanced at least compared to a lot of what we've seen lately. Frankly, much of the racial stuff in the media and being pushed via policy is flat out revenge porn.

It's nice to see at least some attempt to balance the issue here with a few different perspectives.
texasaggie04
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AgfromHOU said:

I like to think that most people just want America to be a better place and do love the country, regardless of what the media and politicians say. Probably naive of me, but oh well. My favorite part about there being a Captain America is how patriotic the idea is, and what Steve and his successors stand for.


I don't think that's naive. The problem is that everybody has a different idea of what a better place looks like (which is not a bad thing), but the internet and media have made it easy for people not to have civil discourse about those ideas.
Counterpoint
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texasaggie04 said:

AgfromHOU said:

I like to think that most people just want America to be a better place and do love the country, regardless of what the media and politicians say. Probably naive of me, but oh well. My favorite part about there being a Captain America is how patriotic the idea is, and what Steve and his successors stand for.


the internet and media have made it easy for people not to have civil discourse about those ideas.
NO THEY HAVEN'T!
Counterpoint
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TCTTS
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Given your handle, this entire exchange is pure art.
mazag08
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Counterpoint said:

texasaggie04 said:

AgfromHOU said:

I like to think that most people just want America to be a better place and do love the country, regardless of what the media and politicians say. Probably naive of me, but oh well. My favorite part about there being a Captain America is how patriotic the idea is, and what Steve and his successors stand for.


the internet and media have made it easy for people not to have civil discourse about those ideas.
NO THEY HAVEN'T!


Quote:

I like your opinion, except it sucks. So let me do the opinion, and that way, it might be really good.

texasaggie04
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TCTTS said:

Given your handle, this entire exchange is pure art.


I can't even be angry. Well played.
amercer
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Life got in the way, so I just finished it up tonight with the kids.

So before I go back and read the last 20 pages of *****ing about plot holes, internet theories gone wrong, or culture war bs, I want to say that I really enjoyed it.

I'm really digging the fact that the TV shows can be slower and smaller than the big screen. This was a New Cap backstory that would have been rushed and contrived in a 2 hour movie. Instead it was really well done.

And I don't need mephisto to show up. The twist we all saw coming is fine. This isn't lost, it's a comic book show. And as my kid pointed out, it seems that all the material for shows is going to heavily draw on good runs from the comics. So we probably shouldn't expect twists or cameos beyond that.
amercer
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Also, give me a ****ing 10 episode Zemo series.

For a villain who was so forgettable that I actually couldn't remember what he looked like, if they made a series with him and his butler going all Batman on bad guys around the world, you could inject it directly into my veins.
YouBet
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amercer said:

Also, give me a ****ing 10 episode Zemo series.

For a villain who was so forgettable that I actually couldn't remember what he looked like, if they made a series with him and his butler going all Batman on bad guys around the world, you could inject it directly into my veins.


Until I saw him again I kept thinking Zemo was Frank Grillos character.
Jugstore Cowboy
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Quote:

And I don't need mephisto to show up. The twist we all saw coming is fine. This isn't lost, it's a comic book show. And as my kid pointed out, it seems that all the material for shows is going to heavily draw on good runs from the comics. So we probably shouldn't expect twists or cameos beyond that.
I've probably beaten this horse to death already, but the streaming shows are much more enjoyable if you completely ignore all the hype sites with their fan fiction rumors and supposed spoilers. Reddit subs got pretty bad about that too. It probably took one or two nerds bringing up Mephisto for that to be the surefire go-to theory on Wandavision that countless people just repeated and recycled all over the webs.

I'm shameless about reading spoilers or theories for Star Wars movies when they're months or years away, but for a week to week show, there's just nothing added by reading that stuff.
mazag08
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Harry Lime said:


Quote:

And I don't need mephisto to show up. The twist we all saw coming is fine. This isn't lost, it's a comic book show. And as my kid pointed out, it seems that all the material for shows is going to heavily draw on good runs from the comics. So we probably shouldn't expect twists or cameos beyond that.
I've probably beaten this horse to death already, but the streaming shows are much more enjoyable if you completely ignore all the hype sites with their fan fiction rumors and supposed spoilers. Reddit subs got pretty bad about that too. It probably took one or two nerds bringing up Mephisto for that to be the surefire go-to theory on Wandavision that countless people just repeated and recycled all over the webs.

I'm shameless about reading spoilers or theories for Star Wars movies when they're months or years away, but for a week to week show, there's just nothing added by reading that stuff.
I've stopped watching screenrant. Dude is almost always 100% wrong when he makes a prediction.
YouBet
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I've never watched any of these online rumor mills. I don't see the point in ruining a show before you watch it. I bail out of threads on here quite frequently and come back after watching it because of that very reason.
amercer
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I still enjoy the ScreenCrush guy. I only watch the recap videos though. Those are 90% Easter eggs and 10% theory. He's got other videos, but I haven't enjoyed the ones that are all predictions.
Jugstore Cowboy
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Hopefully enough time has passed now for me to ask something that was likely discussed much earlier in the thread:

Sam tells John Walker that he and Bucky don't want to work together with him because they're on the outside and can do things their own way, or something to that effect.

If they're "on the outside" doing their own thing, how exactly are they arranging transport all over the world on a moment's notice? How does Joaquin Torres get away with helping Sam so much?
Farmer1906
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They never explain it, do they. Walker is part of the GRC or whatever it's called. Sam & Buck are not. Maybe they get special treatment. Maybe saving the MF world has it perks even if it goes without pay. However, later on Sam specially says they've been sidelined, so they kind of have to answer to someone.
amercer
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I just assumed that while the GRC is running the show now, Sam and Bucky still have a lot of connections (and in Sam's case contracts) in the US military that they can call on.
mazag08
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I've always wanted that episode that takes place over 20 hours as we watch our heroes chilling on a plane while they fly across the world.
JCRiley09
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There could be a fly in the cabin

Just to spice things up.
Aggie_Journalist
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Or maybe an entire episode where they're just waiting for a table at a Chinese restaurant.
Thanks and gig'em
mazag08
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Aggie_Journalist said:

Or maybe an entire episode where they're just waiting for a table at a Chinese restaurant.
Schwarma
Gigem314
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mazag08 said:

I've always wanted that episode that takes place over 20 hours as we watch our heroes chilling on a plane while they fly across the world.
FearNoWeevil
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Harry Lime said:

Hopefully enough time has passed now for me to ask something that was likely discussed much earlier in the thread:

Sam tells John Walker that he and Bucky don't want to work together with him because they're on the outside and can do things their own way, or something to that effect.

If they're "on the outside" doing their own thing, how exactly are they arranging transport all over the world on a moment's notice? How does Joaquin Torres get away with helping Sam so much?
Didn't Sam tell the banker he was a contractor for the government? Or did I make that up?
redline248
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He mentioned "government contracts" as part of why he qualified for the loan.
Capitol Ag
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amercer said:

I still enjoy the ScreenCrush guy. I only watch the recap videos though. Those are 90% Easter eggs and 10% theory. He's got other videos, but I haven't enjoyed the ones that are all predictions.
I watch them for the recaps too and to get more explanation of the characters in the episodes, who they are in the comics vs potentially this show etc. The theories and such do not spoil anything for me and I take those with a grain of salt. I watch these shows to help me understand some of the implications of things happening episode to episode. But I do love to know deeper contexts like how the character fits into this show and the comics to get a better idea of who they are. Since I used to read comics a lot, it's important to me personally to understand how a character fit into a comic series over time and how that changed over time and how that might compare to what they are doing in the MCU.

I really like Screen Crush (the dog's theories are the best!), Heavy Spoilers and New Rockstars. Emergency Awesome is good too though for whatever reason the way he describes things kinda grates on me. He will over explain things at time. For instance, he will sat something like (and this is just a made up example) "Loki is now working for the Time Police....Like he is now actually working for the time police and that his job". I understood what you meant the first time. But that is just me.

I will say that a lot of the shows with predictions can be pointless, like having a Q&A panal on New Rockstars to discuss the same predictions the recap show already brought up. Occasionally I will learn something but most of the time, I'll turn those off.
bearamedic99
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Those of you who enjoy Sharon Carter should enjoy r/SexyWomanOfTheDay today
 
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