Serious question:

Does Anthony Mackie get any recognition for his acting in this in the awards season?

Looking back on the whole series, it struck me just how solid he was handling some pretty serious material interspersed among all the action.

Honestly think Mackie being so good is the only reason this show worked. Some of the nonsensical parts just didn't seem that important because of the force of his (and to lesser extent Stan's) character(s).

Enjoyed the season, thought the finale was okay with some good parts. It did feel a bit heavy-handed at times.

"No. That's Captain America."

Didn't really do much to get me hyped up for a second season, truth be told. And I'm a little confused how Sam and Bucky wouldn't have gathered that Sharon is probably not to be trusted.

Did get choked up in the final Isaiah/Sam scene though. Fantastically done.

I agree with Bucky's resolution with the Asian man feeling a bit rushed. I wish we'd seen more of his immediate reaction to the news. Was he angry? Did he forgive him? Felt like a cop-out to not show us.

Heavy handed is exactly what I was going to say.

They had the right idea on a lot of things, but Sam's big speech didn't land for me and Sharon as Power Broker doesn't quite work for me either. Though I do think that those of y'all who think there wouldn't be some backlash in the real world to Sam as Captain America are very optimistic.

As a whole the Flag Smashers seem to have been meant as this villain we're supposed to feel conflicted about because they're doing something they truly believe in that will genuinely help a lot of people, but I never got enough to feel any real compassion for them. There were a few moments here and there where we saw flashes of it, but as a whole by the end I was ready for Sam to just kick her ass and end things.

The action in this series was first rate though, really great fight sequences and some fun stuff with Sam in the suit. Some great acting too, Sam and Isaiah were great at the end and I enjoyed ep 5 a lot as well as digging into Bucky's psyche early on in the series. Overall it was fun, but definitely not one of their best.

I really liked Sam's speech. I get why people are turned off by the heavy handedness of it, but I allow a certain level of cheesiness/on the nose dialogue in a Captain America property. It was a nice message. Loved Bucky's response to the speech. Sebastian Stan had some solid one liners throughout the series. Hopeful that we see him in more comedies.

My biggest question is when is the next time we see Sam? Season 2 or is there a movie that he pops up in? Love the new suit and want to see it on the big screen.

Of course a show about the Winter Soldier will be "heavy handed."

Really liked a lot of things in this episode.

Sam declaring himself Captain America when he burst through the windows at the beginning was a legit fist-pump moment.

The switching of roles of he and Bucky where Bucky is on the phone trying to talk Karli down while Sam is in super-action mode vs. Bartroc.

Walker using his enhanced powers to try and save the truckful of politicians. The hero he used to be is still in there.

The aforementioned stuff with Isaiah at the museum. Really takes you back to both Cap and Bucky visiting there in WS.

Sharon lives! I yelled angrily at the screen "Don't kill the hot girl!" when she got shot and fortunately they heard me.

The impact on Bucky's face when he gets thanked by the one senator for saving their lives. His expressions when he tells the truth to the old Asian guy at the end as well. When is Sebastian Stan going to blow up to superstar level? Dude can act.

Sam's speech was corny, and no long-term Senator with the cameras on him is dumb enough to just keep saying "You don't understand!" most of those guys could debate rings around Sam in their sleep. However, I also feel that message is necessary for Sam's version of Cap. Steve never experienced a bit of prejudice in his whole life after waking up from the ice and purposely avoided politics so he could just what he felt was right.

Sam grew up in a different America, got zapped in the blip, and wakes up in a totally different world where he needs to be more than just a hero who saves the day with all the other super-powered heroes, fighting aliens and robots and gods. So he needs to take a stand with more than just his fists and the shield.

About the racism comments earlier in this thread, I'm as white as you're going to get. I can offer the limited insight that my roommate my first 2 years was from India and I dated an African-American woman for about 6 months in my 20s, and both of them saw racism in some form each and every day. Not overt, not cross burnings and the N* word thrown in their face, but the suspicious glances and the little 'jokes' and the assumptions and the whispers when others think they aren't listening. I don't know how many racists there might be in the US, but I think if DC announces they're really making a Superman movie with a black male lead, we're going to see a lot of what Sam's talking about.

Enjoyed the series more than Wandavision. Hope there's more to come.

The only way I won't riot if they make a black Superman is if they replace the spitcurl hairstyle with a Jheri curl.

tomtomdrumdrum said:

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Of course a show about the Winter Soldier will be "heavy handed."

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Take your star.

Enjoyed the series... quick notes

- Sam's delivery of "I'm Captain America". I wish would've had an emphasis on "I'm"... think it would have delivered better.

- I absolutely loved the Isaiah scene with Sam... both of them. There were a couple lines of dialogue that had me "Right On!"-ing out loud... very touching!

- I loved that John Walker had a bit of a redemption arc... I found myself rooting for him to beat the snot out of Karli... I'm pretty over her petty whiny antics. Does that make me bad?

- I thought Sam's speech was very good, but a tad too long. At first I was like, THIS is Captain America with the inspirational speeches... but a couple sentences too long made it feel a bit unbelievable or heavy handed... not sure exactly, just a smidge long.

- Action with Cap shield throws combined with falcon gear was pretty cool.

- yes, Sebastian Stan has an incredible way of communicating and acting non-verbally. Excellent actor!

- I hope Sharon is a skrull cause that's the only thing that would make her sub-plot make sense to me.

- Not exactly sure what US Agent John Walker means... hero? Anti-hero? Protagonist? Antagonist? Should be an intriguing arc for sure. I still think he wants to do good... just may be more adrenaline fueled than integrity fueled.

Overall, I thought the show handled the widely-considered touchy content very well. I said earlier in this thread that I hate preach-y, heavy-handed, holier-than-thou Hollywood telling me how I should think or feel about a given subject by painting certain groups with their biased ideas through narrative. I think this did a very respectable job of handling relevant and important content without crossing that line. There were a few times where it got close (long Sam speech and presentation of bafoonish GRC counsel to complicated problems. But the end result as a whole was very well done and in my mind undoubtedly better than any other attempt by Hollywood to touch on this subject. It took a healing come-together type of message which is what this subject needs more than good-guy bad-guy approach.

Quote:

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Yeah... this is one storyline that makes no sense to me. I also almost LOL'd when she says "you know I come prepared" and then gets shot through the gut without a bulletproof vest of some type.

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didnt even think of that. pretty funny

My two nags.

1) Captain America's shield can slice a concrete block in half, but gets knocked out of the air by a $29 office chair.

2) The "I can't believe they didn't use the line!" moment when Karli has knocked Sam to the ground and yells "Stay down!" and he DOES NOT say "I could do this all day."

Zemo was really great in the series and definitely helped contribute to the varying shades of gray between the good guys and the bad guys that started to develop.

And we'll always have the dancing.

Fat Bib Fortuna said:

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2) The "I can't believe they didn't use the line!" moment when Karli has knocked Sam to the ground and yells "Stay down!" and he DOES NOT say "I could do this all day."

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I fully expected him to say that, but it never came

Fat Bib Fortuna said:

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1) Captain America's shield can slice a concrete block in half, but gets knocked out of the air by a $29 office chair.

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It can also slice through a tree trunk, but will bounce off soft tumbling mats.

My 13 year old pointed that out to me when we were watching

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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tomtomdrumdrum said:

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Of course a show about the Winter Soldier will be "heavy handed."

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Take your star.

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AgGrad99 said:

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Fat Bib Fortuna said:

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1) Captain America's shield can slice a concrete block in half, but gets knocked out of the air by a $29 office chair.

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It can also slice through a tree trunk, but will bounce off soft tumbling mats.

My 13 year old pointed that out to me when we were watching

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That thing definitely does not obey the laws of physics.