Is Greenland next?

135,460 Views | 1357 Replies | Last: 13 days ago by nortex97
Ag CPA
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Who?mikejones! said:



This is going to end up being TACO; the deadline will be pushed out for three months next week after some wonderful, terrific phone call.
Who?mikejones!
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Probably a 232 issue to be decided in the courts
Fitch
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Turn the screws every so slightly every day and eventually. . .
Malibu
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We still don't get what we want, but we do get a bunch off pissed of exes that stop putting up with our BS and get higher bond yields and a declining dollar? USA-USA-USA!
Logos Stick
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nai06 said:

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Old McDonald said:

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Just take it. What is Europe going to do about it? I'm all for bringing back "might is right". They can't afford any type of elite military with their socialism that they have to pay for. The US could wipe any of their militaries combined off of the map.
lol ok man


Hey clown. What would Europe do? Do you really think they could stand up to us? Only liberals, like you, would take their side.


Militarily probably nothing in the moment, but this would likely kill NATO. I'd expect Americans abroad would be expelled from every NATO country as would the U.S. military from every foreign base.

Forget tariffs, countries would blacklist u.s. business and but an embargo on any U.S. made good. Individually no single country could do this on their own. But we would be serving ourselves up as a common enemy most of Europe if not the world could unite against. It would signal that the U.S. does not respect the sovereignty of any nation, including our allies which would mean we could no longer be trusted in any way, shape, or form.



Lololol. They are not going to expel us. We protect those losers.

We are the largest economy on earth and have the reserve currency because of that. They will not embargo anything because it would be much worse for them than us.
Malibu
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Our options for Greenland are make them an offer they can't refuse or take it by force. If we make an offer and they decline, we're left with force as the only option. The second we execute that option and use force against an ally, the value and reliability of Americas "protection" drops in value precipitously. Realistically we're not cut out entirely of global markets, but Breton Woods and NATO are functionally dead, and America is no longer an ideological stalwart, it is a transactional distrustful relationship. That's bad for business.
nai06
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Logos Stick said:

nai06 said:

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Old McDonald said:

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

Just take it. What is Europe going to do about it? I'm all for bringing back "might is right". They can't afford any type of elite military with their socialism that they have to pay for. The US could wipe any of their militaries combined off of the map.
lol ok man


Hey clown. What would Europe do? Do you really think they could stand up to us? Only liberals, like you, would take their side.


Militarily probably nothing in the moment, but this would likely kill NATO. I'd expect Americans abroad would be expelled from every NATO country as would the U.S. military from every foreign base.

Forget tariffs, countries would blacklist u.s. business and but an embargo on any U.S. made good. Individually no single country could do this on their own. But we would be serving ourselves up as a common enemy most of Europe if not the world could unite against. It would signal that the U.S. does not respect the sovereignty of any nation, including our allies which would mean we could no longer be trusted in any way, shape, or form.



Lololol. They are not going to expel us. We protect those losers.

We are the largest economy on earth and have the reserve currency because of that. They will not embargo anything because it would be much worse for them than us.


That's a pretty risky gamble.
agent-maroon
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Quote:

America is no longer an ideological stalwart

Do you really think that's how we are currently viewed by the world?
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Malibu
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Absolutely not. You can see it in declining foreign interest in US treasury auctions, rising price of gold, and Canada going to China and spouting off about multipolarity. America is actively being hedged against, and Greenland tariff threats speed up that process.
Who?mikejones!
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I dont really care what the world thinks anymore. Our common allies are straying further from western liberal democracy and western values. They have neither the military strength or political beliefs to further liberal political systems.

We're back in a multi polar world which will require us to exhibit our strength, militarily and financially
Malibu
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Yes, but in a multipower world, power that isn't trusted gets hedged against. That shows up in higher borrowing costs and loss leverage in shaping world affairs. Trust is its own currency, and we're actively eroding that trust.
agent-maroon
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Who?mikejones! said:

I dont really care what the world thinks anymore. Our common allies are straying further from western liberal democracy and western values. They have neither the military strength or political beliefs to further liberal political systems.

We're back in a multi polar world which will require us to exhibit our strength, militarily and financially

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Rapier108
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Tariffs are an empty threat and Trump knows it given the likelihood the Supreme Court is going to strike them down.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Malibu
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"Western liberal democracy and western values"

Forgive me again for being naive, but I thought one of those values was specifically not 'might makes right.' If we're mad at Europe for abandoning values we hold as fundamental, doesn't it seem like hypocrisy in a thread about taking Greenland?
Who?mikejones!
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Malibu said:

Yes, but in a multipower world, power that isn't trusted gets hedged against. That shows up in higher borrowing costs and loss leverage in shaping world affairs. Trust is its own currency, and we're actively eroding that trust.


Trust is an illusion. There's coercion. There's quid pro quo. And there is force.
Malibu
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What you've said is true and if we're discussing naked power dynamics, trust isn't an illusion, it's how coercion gets categorically cheaper. Force works once. Quid pro quo works transaction by transaction. Borrow at lower rates, troop bases abroad with minor grumbling. Remove that and you get higher costs, slower coordination, hedging, and more force to get the same outcomes we used to get a lot cheaper, and without the stink of being a bully.
Who?mikejones!
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Malibu said:

"Western liberal democracy and western values"

Forgive me again for being naive, but I thought one of those values was specifically not 'might makes right.' If we're mad at Europe for abandoning values we hold as fundamental, doesn't it seem like hypocrisy in a thread about taking Greenland?


Yes, naive. We've had the largest military force since the world since ww2 for a reason, often to prove might makes right.

We're not taking Greenland because were upset at Europe abandoning western valves, were taking it because we dont trust them with our own defense, which is both the actual military defense and the exploitation of the natural resources available to not rely on adversary nations
YouBet
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Pylon Cam said:

We truly live in idiocracy…this is the least competent, least serious administration of all time.


Objectively false simply due to one reason - Biden's open border policy. We can then list dozens of other shockingly incompetent things he did if you would like?
Malibu
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Yes, the US had the largest force since WWII, and that force has mostly been used to enforce rules we bound ourselves to. Alliances, treaties, collective defense, and not rewriting the borders of our allies when we don't trust them anymore. That's the distinction that made the entire reason NATO, Bretton Woods, and the reserve currency work for US interests. The second we blow that up with "we take territory from allies when we don't trust them anymore", the lesson to everyone is obvious: US protection is conditional and temporary. The rational response is hedging and diversification away from us. You think that's a good trade for Greenland?
TrumpsBarber
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Malibu said:

"Western liberal democracy and western values"

Forgive me again for being naive, but I thought one of those values was specifically not 'might makes right.' If we're mad at Europe for abandoning values we hold as fundamental, doesn't it seem like hypocrisy in a thread about taking Greenland?

Might makes Right is as American as Abe Lincoln waging a total war of attrition against Southerners. Sadly, that is why he is a hero to most people. Back to Greenland. No one but Lindsey Gruesome and some half-baked neocons prefer war.
Who?mikejones!
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No. I dont.

Id prefer we buy it, or a lot of it anyway, as opposed to taking it by force. I do think we need to ability to fortify/produce as necessary without european bureaucracy getting in the way.
agent-maroon
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Quote:

the lesson to everyone is obvious: US protection is has always been conditional and temporary.

FIFY
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nai06
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Who?mikejones! said:

Malibu said:

"Western liberal democracy and western values"

Forgive me again for being naive, but I thought one of those values was specifically not 'might makes right.' If we're mad at Europe for abandoning values we hold as fundamental, doesn't it seem like hypocrisy in a thread about taking Greenland?


Yes, naive. We've had the largest military force since the world since ww2 for a reason, often to prove might makes right.

We're not taking Greenland because were upset at Europe abandoning western valves, were taking it because we dont trust them with our own defense, which is both the actual military defense and the exploitation of the natural resources available to not rely on adversary nations


So if I don't think my neighbor is capable of protecting his property or utilizing it effectively, I should be able to take it from him?

I mean we've had a military base on Greenland since WW2. Is it really in great danger? Because this just seems like a ploy to exploit the resources of an ally because we want to.

Logos Stick
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Malibu said:

Our options for Greenland are make them an offer they can't refuse or take it by force. If we make an offer and they decline, we're left with force as the only option. The second we execute that option and use force against an ally, the value and reliability of Americas "protection" drops in value precipitously. Realistically we're not cut out entirely of global markets, but Breton Woods and NATO are functionally dead, and America is no longer an ideological stalwart, it is a transactional distrustful relationship. That's bad for business.


It's one thing to not trust our protection, quite another to actually kick us out. If they did that, then NATO would indeed be dead. China and Russia would love nothing more. Despite what happened with Greenland, everyone would have significant self interest in maintaining the alliance. Enemy of my enemy at that point.

Trump is not going to take Greenland by force so its all academic anyway. I just find it funny when libs act like Europe would have any stroke if it happened.
Who?mikejones!
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nai06 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

Malibu said:

"Western liberal democracy and western values"

Forgive me again for being naive, but I thought one of those values was specifically not 'might makes right.' If we're mad at Europe for abandoning values we hold as fundamental, doesn't it seem like hypocrisy in a thread about taking Greenland?


Yes, naive. We've had the largest military force since the world since ww2 for a reason, often to prove might makes right.

We're not taking Greenland because were upset at Europe abandoning western valves, were taking it because we dont trust them with our own defense, which is both the actual military defense and the exploitation of the natural resources available to not rely on adversary nations


So if I don't think my neighbor is capable of protecting his property or utilizing it effectively, I should be able to take it from him?

I mean we've had a military base on Greenland since WW2. Is it really in great danger? Because this just seems like a ploy to exploit the resources of an ally because we want to.




I dont think your example is relevant.

I dont think us having a military base there is sufficient if we take the trump administration's claims at face value
Squadron7
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I wonder how many people know why we have Hawai'i as a state.
Who?mikejones!
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Or alaska
HalifaxAg
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nai06 said:


So if I don't think my neighbor is capable of protecting his property or utilizing it effectively, I should be able to take it from him?

I mean we've had a military base on Greenland since WW2. Is it really in great danger? Because this just seems like a ploy to exploit the resources of an ally because we want to.



Of course we want the resources and you do too unless you're willing to stop having consumer electronics and fancy missiles that prevent "boots on the ground" aka you.

Also, go look at the seer size of the island, one base ain't ***** The whole idea, besides untapped resources, is positioning ICBM missile defenses all over the island to shut down the shortest path for those missiles to the US. Given new hypersonic tech, early detection & intervention is the best chance for defense.

ttu_85
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Malibu said:

Absolutely not. You can see it in declining foreign interest in US treasury auctions, rising price of gold, and Canada going to China and spouting off about multipolarity. America is actively being hedged against, and Greenland tariff threats speed up that process.

Have you ever thought about why this is a hill Trump is politically willing to die on?

I was also against this action but then have since learned that China is trying to corner the Rare Earths market- Metals and minerals critical to this technological age. Compared to the risk of China dominating this critical area, I'm thinking what you are concerned about in this post doesn't even compare.

And the VZ thing? It was all about sending a China a message- "You F* with us on rare earths, We F* with your oil.

This is the classic time honored fight for critical global resources. The politics and ideological stuff is a side show in comparison.
KentK93
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Which US National Guard units should be used to take Greenland?

t_J_e_C_x
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bobbranco said:

t_J_e_C_x said:

bobbranco said:

t_J_e_C_x said:

Seeing posts advocating for the invasion of Ukrainian sovereignty by Russia and America invading the sovereignty of Denmark on F16 is wild.


Who exactly is advocating for invasion of Greenland?




Let's not be obtuse ignore the many veiled calls for military action to take Greenland that have been shared in here via supportive tweets and or words.

Economic pressure to get better deals out of Danish government are great, but military action? Cmon.


Got it. No proof.

Way to command your argument.


Coming back to check in on this thread. Seems I was proven right. These last couple pages are all in on taking it by force.

What a joke.
C/O 2013 - Company E2
Decay
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If Europe is deploying literally dozens of soldiers... They clearly don't think we're taking it by force either
Who?mikejones!
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Canada is a lost cause. Trudeau absolutely ruined that place.


hitching their wagon to china will only expedite their total collapse. Give too much up to the Chinese and it might get ugly.
Malibu
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Canada is doing that in response to loss of US trust as a responsible ally mostly, and a little bit because the Blue Jays keep getting clucked (sp?) by the Dodgers
Malibu
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https://apnews.com/article/mercosur-european-union-trade-agreement-south-america-b779460da4b7ecb6aa15d322976fa70d

European Union and Mercosur bloc of South American nations sign landmark free trade agreement

I wonder what the impetus was for getting this over the finish line? Certainly not geopolitical hedging.
 
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