my understanding is that the sniper guy did mail out the packages to the media

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I know the series didn't end up with everyone being caught, they got Errol (their man) at the end. But didn't they mail out the videos and all of their investigation out to media outlets and such? Could be assumed that they got the man with the scars, but the info on the Tuttle's and Childress' is now out there, because of them.

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I'll use this quote/question to ask another of my own. It seems a lot of people who are unhappy with ending are also unhappy that more of the "higher up" cult members weren't exposed or brought to justice to wrap up that plot point.

Did they not say on the newscast that was playing while Rust was staring out the window of his hospital room that the US or state DA's had reviewed the evidence and dismissed any connection with the Tuttle family?

The way I interpreted it, they were never going to be able to expose the entire outfit. They weren't even cops anymore and that ending would have been ridiculous. I assumed they got all of their information into the hands of the proper authorities and it was, again, hushed up and buried by the Tuttle members still in power.

Absolute power still wins out in the end(i.e. the dark overwhelming the light) but small battles like this one are what have helped the light to gain a foothold.

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Thought it was a great show, but it wasn't Sherlock-great.

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True Detective is better than Sherlock

and as far as the little boy that Errol was eyeing is concerned, those small battles are meaningful

Yes Rust was basically disgusted while he heard the news report that reports have discounted the theory of him being a Tuttle.

That's meant to read: The elite stay elite and still control some things.

Also, SNL should pay me for this but they should definitely spoof Seinfeld and Rust with a "Comedians in cars riding with Rust Cohle"

There's potential for hilarity to ensue. Every car scene with those 2 I immediately got a smile on my face because I knew the conversation would be awesome.

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Did they not say on the newscast that was playing while Rust was staring out the window of his hospital room that the US or state DA's had reviewed the evidence and dismissed any connection with the Tuttle family?

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I thought it said that the Tuttle family was denying the connection, not necessarily the authorities and that the investigation was ongoing.

I think it said state authorities had disproved that Childress was part of Tuttle clan (ie cover up). That's what I mean. You think Cohle is just cool with letting that go.

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Life is about mystery. Anyone who thinks he knows the answer to all of life's mysteries hasn't given nearly enough thought to life.

This is the essence of the human experience.

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That's what I mean. You think Cohle is just cool with letting that go.

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I don't know. But that's not the story we're being shown.

I don't think you have to assume Rust is going to go live a life grilling and watching golf on Sundays. It's open-ended. I think he'll probably struggle a lot still, but the whole series was a major transformation for him based off that final scene. Pizzolatto isn't trying to tel us one way or the other what to think about Carcosa, who's behind it. You can interpret what would happen however you want.

The story was about this girl, this ride, and this process between Rust and Marty.

compared to last night, can we all admit as to what complete dreck the Sopranos ending was?

I think there's a lot of Lostesque apologizing/hedging going on. If the story of Dora Lange was about The Yellow King/Carcosa and their followers, then the story of Dora Lange isn't over.

I'm not Lost hedging or anything. I've told a lot of people multiple times throughout this thread to stop going for the crazy theories because that's not what the show is about or is going to do. I also said that the show and the story is about the journey of them 2, and if you keep seeking this end-game answer to tie up the show for you then you are approaching it wrong.

I tried to make that point multiple times over the past few weeks.

The show did exactly what I wanted it to do.

[This message has been edited by Bunk Moreland (edited 3/10/2014 11:47a).]

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If the story of Dora Lange was about The Yellow King/Carcosa and their followers, then the story of Dora Lange isn't over.

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Just to play both sides of the argument here, my view is that Dora Lange's and the Yellow King story ended with Rust and Marty's.

I may be interpreting things completely wrong but I associated the Yellow King as Errol's "spin-off" to the much larger and older, Tuttle family Carcosa. Hence, the reason there was an actual Yellow King figure in Errol's lair.

To me, Errol was the Yellow King himself and carried out his deeds with the help of Ledoux and others as a result of his childhood experiences with Carcosa. His death does nothing to stop Carcosa(I just interpreted Carcosa to be the cult's idealogy not necessarily a person or figure) from continuing, especially with so many Tuttle family members still in positions of power.

Just my two cents.

I'll start by saying that I loved the ending and the entire season.

My one qualm about the episode was how Marty got to the Green Ears thing. I just remember saying out loud "not sure how in the heck he got there but whatever" and moving along.

One thing that my friend and I talk about with this show is just how incredible the State of Louisiana is and how this show would never be able to be placed anywhere else. I think it says a lot about what people are upset about and how there's too many things we don't know.

Louisiana has some of the richest history of any State in the US and some of the strangest as well. The line Errol says "my family has been here for a long time" is soooo money. They have been there for a long time and are NOT going anywhere anytime soon.

So yes Marty and Rust got their man. But they are never going to get all of them.

Bunk: I'm happy you're happy, but I didn't invent the young daughters sex drawings/doll manipulations (that looked like the videotape), wall spiral (that was tattooed on dead girl), devils three way at a young age (that speaks to hyper sexualization) or M**** telling Marty young girls had to learn that stuff sooner (bc HELLO MCFLY, OLD PERVY MEN PREY ON YOUNG GIRLS)or Marty's big emotional speech about inattention (which doesn't speak to mental illness of daughter but would speak to letting her become prey). Those are not crazy theories I invented. Those are things that a show about child predators threw in our face. Don't call me crazy bc the show throws things at us and then says we were crazy bc we saw what the show was throwing at us.

[This message has been edited by H.E. Pennypacker (edited 3/10/2014 11:43a).]

So who takes over the lead roles now that Harrelson and McConahey are gone?

I agree with Pennypacker.

Another plot hole; what about this Childress brother?

Enjoyed it. A few of my thoughts:

1) As expected, there was a fair amount of closure, but centered around the soldiers while the game goes on.

2) i don't think the ending, Marty's speech, or Cohle's newfound optimism precludes Cohle from continuing to pursue the Tuttle and larger conspiracy aspects. If he does, it's with that newfound outlook.

3). I don't have an issue with them showing us issues and hints about Marty's kid being involved in abuse. Again, the broader aspect is that they were soldiers that took out a piece, but there are plenty of bad guys still out there. And even if she was abused, it doesn't mean it ties directly to this conspiracy. It's also back to the detective's curse in a way - they took two parts of this group out, but there is still something that went down right under Marty's nose.

Yes, there are loose ends and bad guys getting away. That is what is realistic. And as opposed to looking at it like Lost, I think a comparison to the Wire is much more appropriate in that regard.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 3/10/2014 12:35p).]

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That's why this finale was a big disappointment to me. It betrays the character we came to understand and love.

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I'll give you the stuff about Marty's daughter. I did want some kind of explanation for the coincidences in that situation rather than "inattentiveness."

But as for Rust's evolution, that's literally the main goal/point of storytelling. It's called a character arc. Not liking the finale because Cohle changed is like not liking Star Wars because Han comes back to fight the Death Star, "betraying" the selfish character we came to understand and love. Or not liking Good Will Hunting because Will learns in the end that it's "not his fault" and finally takes his guard down, "betraying" the arrogant pr*ck we came to understand and love. That "betrayal" of established character is the entire point. Cohle's "5%" transformation was the story. Character evolution is the very core of storytelling, which Pizzolatto points out is literally what this season was about. Cohle NOT changing is the exact thing that would have "betrayed" what Pizzolatto set out to do.

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It's also back to the detective's curse in a way - they took two parts of this group out, but there is still something that went down right under Marty's nose.

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I like this idea and I want to believe it, but here's my problem:

Marty knows the symbolism of the spiral; he has seen the video of the guys with Marie F. Why doesn't something click with him about his own daughter? As opposed to something completely obscure which I still don't understand about connecting the green paint to the lawnmower guy.

Pennypacker, the show specifically told us not to create a narrative and then bend evidence to fit the storyline, yet that's exactly what we all did when looking at Marty's family. In reality, the killer was right there in the beginning and we all (including Marty and Rust) overlooked him while searching for the bigger conspiracy. I think that's kind of cool.

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As opposed to something completely obscure which I still don't understand about connecting the green paint to the lawnmower guy.

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how long had he been staring at that bulletin board?

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Why doesn't something click with him about his own daughter?

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what exactly was supposed to click?

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Marty knows the symbolism of the spiral; he has seen the video of the guys with Marie F. Why doesn't something click with him about his own daughter? As opposed to something completely obscure which I still don't understand about connecting the green paint to the lawnmower guy.

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Given the elapsed time between seeing the toys (1995), realizing his daughter was ****ed up (2002), and then seeing the tape (2012), I think it's completely plausible that the memory of the toys is long forgotten. There is no picture or record of it to remind him. It is clear to you because you saw it a month ago. It was 7 years between him seeing it and realizing his daughter had issues, and there was no picture that captured it or other evidence of it.

In the meantime, he's got a picture of a guy with green ears on one wall and a picture of a green house that a girl went missing from on the other wall.

Huge difference. And that's without getting into the detective's curse aspect that indicates he'd naturally be more likely to make the latter connection than the former.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 3/10/2014 12:36p).]

i can see the criticism that Pizzolatto seemed to want to write/show it both ways (straight, glorious pulp AND lots of literary references, metaphors and DVR-era easter eggs)

so instructing the audience to take away all those red herrings and compartmentalize them as not being part of the "real" story is kind of a trick in itself.

but the Cohle character arc was so compelling, i can accept that none of that stuff was all that important in comparison, and was more of an effective mood/gloom-setting device (i.e. darkness everywhere, with glimmers of light trying desperately to break through)

1) First of all, if you didn't like the ending, that's fine, but don't try to tell those of us who did like it that we're "covering" or something like that. Many of you who are unsatisfied are that way because you took a bunch of screen caps that were probably unintentionally placed in the show and extrapolated them like this was a Lost remake, when the author came out and specifically said it wasn't anything like that.

2) Not every girl that has daddy issues and gets in devil's threeways with boys in parked cars are the victims of some cult's sexual abuse while they're a child. Yeah, the barbies were arranged like the guys in video, but you know what? There are a million gang-bang pornos that have a bunch of naked men standing around a naked girl, too (or so I hear).

His daughter had daddy issues because her dad was a piece of crap that was out chasing tail all night instead of coming home and raising a family and showing her how a man should treat a lady he loves. That's all that was meant from that. Taking a random screen cap of a spiral drawing on the wall didn't mean what everyone wanted it to mean. Most likely, one of the set-designer brought some drawings from her refrigerator and stapled them to the wall.

3) They put a major dent into the child rape ring. From what I could tell, Errol was the point man for the child rapes. Yeah, the other members of the family participated in the rapes, but everything pointed to it being Errol who scouted the kids and abducted the kids. Some of the others may try to pick up where he left off, but they don't have the experience or the know-how and they could screw it up once they take over. Plus, it's out there now. Cops who aren't in the cover-up know where to start looking now. It's not going to just go back to business as usual. They found the "Yellow King" they found Carcosa. They ripped out the heart of the scheme. Anything that arises after this is going to be something completely different. Remember, Errol was "worse than everybody" or whatever.

4) Ultimately, as others have said, this was about flawed men who are "bad" in many ways, trying to beat back the darkness. What makes a person good or evil? Is Marty a "good" person? It may depend on who you asked. His daughters may give you a different answer than a parent of one of the victims, who may give you a different answer than his wife, who may differ from Cohle. (as an aside, to me, Marty was a much more interesting character than Cohle)

[This message has been edited by bendover (edited 3/10/2014 12:36p).]

Bravo, bendover.

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UberFacts ‏@UberFacts 5h
If you were to fall into a black hole, you'd be able to see both the universe beginning and ending due to time dilation.

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Great show and unlike any other I've really seen. Should be a ton of Emmy's flying around for it.

I agree the ending was solid and they wrapped up the story very well and realistically. Fantastic writing, directing, set design, and of course acting.

I also agree that the biggest criticism to me is the dead end storylines left with Marty's daughters. They went out of their way to drop symbols and hints that there was more to that story and also Nic P also went out of his way to say he "wasn't trying to trick you". I just found it disappointing for them to drop so many hints and put so many coincidental overlaps to the "bigger" story when there was none. Marty was an inattentive Dad and his daughter had issues, that's it. So why drop all the other hints? I also thought Marty's meeting with his family at the end seemed a little hokey and honestly I thought they would show it to be a dream sequence. It just didn't seem quite right somehow.

Still a great, great series and groundbreaking imo.

This show was one of the best I've seen in a while and one I need to go back and watch again to try and catch things I'm sure I missed. i'm not sure how they can top themselves in Season 2 but I think the goal should be to maintain the formula that got them here.

As for the ending I am completly satisfied with it. We got the closure that Marty and Rust were looking for. I don't think they ever thought they would be able to bring down the whole network but they were able to put an end to some of it and shine a light on other parts of it.

For those complaining about a lack of character development and not closing every single loop, remember this was an 8 episode show. It isn't something where you get 12 episodes a season and 6 seasons to fully develop all the characters. It was focused on Marty and Rust and we were given insight into what makes them tick by the people they were around and to the level that they wanted them around. To me that shows their flaws and humans and honestly I didn't want to have a bunch of filler with the wife or daughters crying about why Marty didn't love them

More than anything I think the daughter stuff was meant to represent that clues are everywhere for all things in life and Marty was always overlooking them in regards to his family.

He never took the time to question why his daughters were doing certain things or try to better understand it, instead trying to criticize, avoid, and put out of sight things he doesn't understand.

I'm sorry that I never took the daughter theory and ran with it that there were all blatant clues that had to be related to the killers. While it's fun to speculate that the grandfather could have been part of the rich cult, and I definitely see how we could have run down that road, ultimately what were construed as "clues" with the daughters were related to Marty's relationship with his family and overlooking so many obvious issues he had with them and not in regards to the case.

I believe Marty referred to it as the detective's curse. Many of you were looking everywhere for answers, trying to piece together things, and it was always in front of us, just like it was for them.

Again, Pizzolatto warned us about this very thing and made comments alluding to the fact that he wants to break of us from this mold of twists, theories and crazy for the sake of crazy.

This was about Marty and Rust. The journey was the story, not what happened in the end.

[This message has been edited by Bunk Moreland (edited 3/10/2014 12:52p).]

Interesting response I borrowed/copied from IMDB:

I hate to spoil this for all you guys but you need to do some research on the actual book the yellow king and on Corcosa and the entire H.P. Lovecraft world.

The yellow king author was an influence on lovecraft.

Corcosa is a city on a planet in another universe, its a universe that if we visited would instantly drive us insane, (so would seeing the play "The Yellow King").

The only way to access this other universe is through ancient incantations, occult activity and performing abominations which twist our reality to the point that a gateway opens, that gateway would lead to that other universe.

What Rust saw was that gateway, chances are you have to be a bit clairvoyant to even sense it but Rust is a fairly deep and "sensitive" (as in clairvoyant) character.

I also know that the writer is ok with you thinking its not real, in fact he would prefer most people think it was a hallucination of Rusts, the "reality" of the show is that Rust saw a portal to another dimension, created from sheer pain, terror and horror beyond normal human experience but the writer knows that the underlying supernatural references might turn off the hardcore "detective" type TV watchers, in other words he wants the skeptics to remain skeptical but wants to tip the hat to the sci fi/horror lovers out there, the ones that know better.

Btw, all these ideas were also used by Clive Barker when he made Hellraiser, the idea that pain was a whole other dimension and that we could access that dimension by creating abominations, in hellraisers case it was the lament configuration, in the True Detectives case it was the occult torture and killing of people, same ideas.

Why the thought that this was a rich cult?

Wasn't it just Errol and the family covering it up so to not ruin their political/community power. Was there ever any evidence that the Tuttles were directly involved with the murders and child abductions? They were just involved in the cover up.