I would've agreed after the second ep, but the way the one cop shut down the other with a hand slight when Cohle was on his rant about the tin man gave me the idea that the director wants us to think they are giving Cohle enough rope to hang himself as a crazy man.

[This message has been edited by mw03 (edited 1/28/2014 9:16p).]

i imagined the present-day detectives salivating when cohle was describing victims' last moments. i don't buy that he did it, but it sure sounded like someone who had experienced being right there.

quote:

---

but it sure sounded like someone who had experienced being right there.

---

He has and the detectives know he has. Didn't he say he killed two people when undercover?

yes, he did Ag_07

i meant more from the perspective of killer and victim, not in the line of police duty.

quote:

---

In January of ‘88 I killed three
cartel men at the Port of Houston.
Took one in the chest.

---

Just finished binge watching the first three episodes... what a great show.

I don't think Cohle is going to be the killer, though I think that's what we're supposed to suspect right now. I do want to know about their falling out and what happened afterward, though.

Looking forward to ep. 4.

No way Cohle is the killer. Lots of reasons, but no way. He is the True Detective. Show is pointless if he's the new killer.

I'm torn whether Ladoux is the first killer, though he is obviously a killer. So the new killer is probably a copycat of Ladoux, but may be someone who got lucky that cohle and Harte found Ladoux before they found the killer they were looking for.

[This message has been edited by snowdog90 (edited 1/29/2014 2:50p).]

I'm not convinced that Ledoux is the killer. I still feel like the true killer is involved with the church. Ledoux just seems like a thug that is somehow connected (meth) but not the killer.

We don't yet know that Ledoux was who they ended up finding as the first murderer anyway. He may just be a crankhead nut that they find on their way to solving the first one.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 1/29/2014 4:12p).]

We haven't even met Ledoux. That dude in woods does not equal Ledoux. Could be someone from his posse.

And am I the ony who never for a moment thought that Cohle was the killer? That didn't seem possible. Just because a dude likes to deep think and throw back a sixer of non-fancy tall boys. Does not make you a killer.

^Completely agree, Btron.

Great show. Love everything. Cinematography and sets really stand out for me.

Did everybody get a memo that it was spelled "Cohle"? I just assumed it was Cole. I don't see how WH or MM could be the killer, doesn't ring true to me.

I agree with most posters. I'd guess that LeDoux is bad seed. He dies in shootout with cops. Heroes have doubts because no additional evidence that he is killer. Politics want to shut down the investigation and sweep it under the rug.

It's spelled Cohle because its spelled Cohle

Scatter shooting:

How can you listen to that rant at the end by Cohle and not think they at least want you to think he is the killer? It was a perfect serial killer monologue on what he sees in his victim's eyes just before they die.

Part of me thinks that there may be some slight of hand going on right now, too. What if what we think is "too" obvious, that Cohle is the killer (or new killer), ends up being true, meanwhile over here in the left hand the writer hits us with the real haymaker.

I don't know what that would be, but I think what is going on with the daughter and the dirty pictures is going to come back up. That plot line has me very intrigued. I have no idea where it is going, but what if it turns out she attends a new school ran by the Tuttle ministries or something like that?

Another thought I have is, what kind of show is this? Maybe there is no big plot twist at the end? Maybe it is just more about character and drama and there isn't some big AHA moment?

And i personally don't want them to change the framing of the show until the very end. It is going to be jarring if hey take them out of interrogation and put them solely into present time.

This thing has a usual suspect vibe to it.

[This message has been edited by bendover (edited 1/30/2014 1:01a).]

The guy in the gas mask is Ledouz. I'd bet any amount of money on it. Makes absolutely no sense to not be him.

quote:

---

How can you listen to that rant at the end by Cohle and not think they at least want you to think he is the killer? It was a perfect serial killer monologue on what he sees in his victim's eyes just before they die.

---

He was talking about what the victims' last thoughts are just before they die. Not what he sees in their eyes just before they die. He said their relief was evident by their eyes after death. Besides, it was fairly obvious all this was from looking at the hundreds of pictures of corpses, which they were showing him doing in '95. It wasn't an allusion to all the woman he had secretly murdered or anything like that.

Like someone said earlier in the thread, Cohle is the True Detective. That's kind of the whole point. It takes someone such as himself to catch the crazies. A true detective has to be able to relate to the killer in some way or another, to see what they see, to think how they think. To be able to see the world differently than the rest of us.

You guys are trying to read way too much into this whole they-want-us-to-think-Cohle-is-the-killer thing. That's not what they're doing. They're simply showing that it takes a crazy to catch a crazy. That the best detectives might be just a loose screw or two away from being psychos themselves, but there's something keeping them from crossing that fine line between the two paths. And that fine line is what this show is examining.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 1/30/2014 1:24a).]

^^ Completely agree Tc

Boom. EOT till next episode.

Thanks tc

Although I agree that Cohle is most likely not the killer due to the reasons you state (point of show is crazy catches crazy, etc), I do feel like the show intentionally casts doubt on him. The detectives asking Hart "do you feel Cohle lead you to certain conclusions", etc is one example. I feel most good mystery shows want to cast doubt on as many characters as possible to keep the audience engaged - Cohle with his drug delusions, thoughts on life ("the hubris to pull a soul into existence in this meat"), decay since the case ended. The way the castrated guy laughed at the "they painted the church wall" line. The lingering stares from the preacher. The use of a recognizable actor for such a small role as the lawn mower guy. Just little things introducing doubt.

So I think the show wants to cast doubt on as many as possible and that includes Cohle.

quote:

---

I do feel like the show intentionally casts doubt on him.

---

i agree. it's not heavy handed, but there.

quote:

---

He was talking about what the victims' last thoughts are just before they die. Not what he sees in their eyes just before they die. He said their relief was evident by their eyes after death. Besides, it was fairly obvious all this was from looking at the hundreds of pictures of corpses, which they were showing him doing in '95. It wasn't an allusion to all the woman he had secretly murdered or anything like that.

---

Pardon the expression, but "no ****."

My point was, you could just as easily replace "seeing their eyes after death" with "seeing their eyes as they die" and it would be a classic serial killer rant.

quote:

---

You guys are trying to read way too much into this whole they-want-us-to-think-Cohle-is-the-killer thing. That's not what they're doing.

---

If you were right, then the author has done a poor job of controlling his audience, as pretty much everybody either thinks Cohle is the killer, or the writer wants you to think Cohle is the killer. A quick google search:

quote:

---

The moment above at the end of the pilot episode triggered the same thought in a million people on Sunday night: Rust Cohle is the serial killer. I know, because that’s the inkling I had, it’s exactly what my wife suggested after she saw the scene, and that very theory is floating all around the Internets. And that’s exactly how creator/writer Nic Pizzolatto designed it. He wants us to think that, probably as a kind of misdirection: If we make that assumption, then we start to bend the narrative to support that assumption, and while we’re looking in one hand, Pizzolatto will be doing all the magic with his other hand.

---

And this is what I was talking about that maybe this isn't a show with a big reveal and more of a character study (though I don't think so, and neither does this blogger):

quote:

---

… unless, of course, as the series progresses, it doesn’t become about the identity of the killer at all, but his motives and Martin Hart’s realization that Cohle is the killer over the course of his interview with the two detectives. I’ve argued that what makes the series so great and different from other crime dramas is that the identity of the killer is secondary to the character development, and that it’s getting inside the minds of Cohle and Hart that make this series so spectacular. It is possible, then, that Pizzolatto is leading us to an obvious conclusion because the identity of the killer is irrelevant to what the series is trying to accomplish, which is to get inside the minds of Cohle and Hart and explore them. Maybe in the fourth episode, Pizzolatto actually reveals Cohle as the serial killer, and we spend the second half of the season exploring what it is that drove him to kill prostitutes, and wondering how long it will take for Hart to figure that out and curse himself for not realizing it much earlier …

… but I don’t think so. Because when Cohle says, “You’re asking the wrong ******* questions,” the most obvious conclusion anyone would draw is that the right questions are about how he pulled off murders. That’s a seed that Pizzolatto wanted to plant, not to lead you to the killer, but to throw you off the scent.

---

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2014/01/youre-thinking-killer-true-detective-wrong/#ixzz2rtLAlsaE


[This message has been edited by bendover (edited 1/30/2014 8:26a).]

bendover - I totally agree that was show's intentions with the pilot. As it cut to black there at the end, we were all supposed to potentially suspect Cohle as the killer. I'm just saying ever since that moment, they've kind of moved on from that into something more complex.

http://www.amazon.com/Galveston-Novel-Nic-Pizzolatto/dp/1439166668

I've read Nic's book Galveston. He's not in the business of twists and turns and misdirections.

^ Which is now being made into a movie. Announced just this week. That's what having a hit show on HBO will do for you.

Wow good for him.
When I bought this book from a recommendation form Esquire, The plot section read differently. Not a bad story, but not sure how a film adaption will work.
Any word on this story being made into movie? This was a very good and exciting read.
http://www.amazon.com/Angel-Baby-Novel-Richard-Lange/dp/0316219827

Re: Angel Baby, haven't heard anything.

TCTTS is so good at exposition.


And I guess I'm in the minority, but I have never once thought that Cohle is the killer. It just seems way too easy and cliched.

damn you Super Bowl

i've never thought cohle was the killer. however i have thought, and still think that the makers of the show are trying to throw it out there as at least a possibility.

quote:

---

And I guess I'm in the minority, but I have never once thought that Cohle is the killer. It just seems way too easy and cliched.

---

agreed. We may or may not have even met the killer. We are just along for the ride of the story.

quote:

---

Although I agree that Cohle is most likely not the killer due to the reasons you state (point of show is crazy catches crazy, etc), I do feel like the show intentionally casts doubt on him. The detectives asking Hart "do you feel Cohle lead you to certain conclusions", etc is one example. I feel most good mystery shows want to cast doubt on as many characters as possible to keep the audience engaged - Cohle with his drug delusions, thoughts on life ("the hubris to pull a soul into existence in this meat"), decay since the case ended. The way the castrated guy laughed at the "they painted the church wall" line. The lingering stares from the preacher. The use of a recognizable actor for such a small role as the lawn mower guy. Just little things introducing doubt.

So I think the show wants to cast doubt on as many as possible and that includes Cohle.

---

My thoughts as well. Not necessarily that Cohle is the killer, but that the show wants you to suspect Cohle.

quote:

---

And I guess I'm in the minority, but I have never once thought that Cohle is the killer. It just seems way too easy and cliched.

---

I love this comment. Certainly, making the lead detective on the case turn out to be the serial killer is cliched; there's no doubt about that.

So, it follows logically then that the very best twist the writers can give us is to actually tell a linear story where we suspect Cohle in the beginning and then have that confirmed in the end.

In other words, we've come to expect the twist (here, the trope that the lead detective is actually the serial killer) As a result, the writers play to the expectation and then rip it away in an effort to avoid the cliched twist. But the result is that the method of avoiding the cliched twist has become so cliched itself that the real surprise would be actually confirming the anticipated --and subsequently dismissed and disregarded-- twist.

So basically, the least shocking thing True Detective can do would be to hint at Cohle as the killer and then ultimately reveal that he's innocent and another character is the actual killer. The most shocking thing they could do would be to hint at Cohle as the killer, then reveal Cohle as the killer.

Unless they make Marty the killer. Which would come out of left field.


-----------


I will say this: regardless the supposition, this show has prompted the best discussion this board's seen in a long time. That's definitely a sign of how good this thing really is.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 1/30/2014 1:23p).]

quote:

---

I will say this: regardless the supposition, this show has prompted the best discussion this board's seen in a long time.

---

Not Beyonce?

Seriously, though, agreed. Shows like True Detective are what bring out the best in this board.

And thanks, SP.

Reminds me to the glory of the LOST threads.