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Yeah, the barbies were arranged like the guys in video, but you know what? There are a million gang-bang pornos that have a bunch of naked men standing around a naked girl, too (or so I hear).

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Which begs the question of where his child would have come across something like that.

Also, Marty learns in 1995 that LeDoux et. al. are doing terrible things to children. That's the same time frame in which the daughter draws explicit sexual drawings and arranges her dolls in a sexually explicit way.

If you want to say that Marty's failure to connect the dots is due to his inattention, that's fine, but the dots are there for him to connect.

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Corcosa is a city on a planet in another universe, its a universe that if we visited would instantly drive us insane, (so would seeing the play "The Yellow King").

The only way to access this other universe is through ancient incantations, occult activity and performing abominations which twist our reality to the point that a gateway opens, that gateway would lead to that other universe.

What Rust saw was that gateway, chances are you have to be a bit clairvoyant to even sense it but Rust is a fairly deep and "sensitive" (as in clairvoyant) character.

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any thoughts on rust's explanation to marty about how the tuttle minister died?

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Which begs the question of where his child would have come across something like that.

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school, magazines, tv, the mall, friends house. There's a million ways. There's just this need by many to want it to have to do with the murders when, again, it was more in reference to Marty not recognizing problems with his daughter at a very early age.

if this is indeed an homage to weird fiction, then should things like the doll gangbang be considered red herrings, or just part and parcel to an inexplicably ****ed up setting?

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There's just this need by many to want it to have to do with the murders

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I am sure you have looked at all the stuff about the spiral on the girl's wall and the photos, etc., that were posted on Reddit. It is clear to me that the author was inviting the audience to make that connection. He did not need to echo the other imagery in the show as closely as he did had he simply wanted to point out that Marty was inattentive.

Therefore, two possibilities:

1. For whatever reason, the author did a lousy job of writing or in fact tricked the audience, which he claimed he had no interest in doing.

2. The audience is meant to realize that Marty STILL doesn't understand what really happened to his own family, and thus the very strange hospital reunion is given more depth and irony.



[This message has been edited by OldArmy71 (edited 3/10/2014 1:12p).]

The "rich cult" came from the prisoner that talked to Rust about the Yellow King, which set off the re-investigation after Reggie LeDoux.

He said that he'd seen the Yellow King and a bunch of "rich devil worshippers" doing horrible things to kids. Something like that. That, of course, jibes with the old money Tuttle's involvement and spun off the theory of rich FIL being a part of it.

Errol could have certainly seen the rich version of the Yellow King while younger and decided to start his own branch of it since he knew they would never let him be part of it

Plus they got the videotape from Tuttle's house.

I enjoyed the journey both characters took, but with only 8 episodes it was hard for me to feel all that much for either of them -- maybe that was a product of binge watching instead of waiting week-by-week.

I can discount the other "flaws" in the show of the other characters having no depth, the solving of the crime not really being that intricate or plausible (Cohle just happens to have been in deep cover with that specific biker gang? Cohle as a cat burglar? A completely unnecessary episode in the hood?) and the discovery/realization coming down to "green ears? green house!"... I can discount that stuff because as many have said -- this was about Cohle and Hart's journey.

But when Cohle and Hart entered "Carcosa" in what seemed like a very poorly written sequence -- "We're from Louisiana but don't realize you don't get cell reception in the backwoods... Let's split up!", I honestly didn't care if they lived or died.

Did Hart realize how important his family really was? Maybe... Though we thought he learned that the first time before he banged the grown-up prostitute. Did Cohle finally "understand" the world and meaning of life/death? Maybe, though 25% of his 8 season dialogue was mumbo-jumbo.

Again, likely a product of binge-watching, but in an 8 episode series I just didn't have an emotional investment in either character, whereas in The Shield, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc... I actually gave a **** if the character lived or died.

^
I would say your are definitely in the minority.

I've been to a lot of "backwoods" places that get cell phone reception, then you drive a little bit down the road and boom it's gone. Hell these days I'm more surprised when I don't have it way out in the middle of nowhere than when I do.

Maybe it was the binge watching for you but this was probably the most I've enjoyed watching a TV series. I've never been as excited about a show coming on. The first thing I thought of Sunday morning was "damn my head hurts" but the second was "True Detective is tonight". Awesome show and I'm ready to watch it again. I have my doubts on how the second season could be anywhere close.

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Maybe it was the binge watching for you but this was probably the most I've enjoyed watching a TV series. I've never been as excited about a show coming on. The first thing I thought of Sunday morning was "damn my head hurts" but the second was "True Detective is tonight". Awesome show and I'm ready to watch it again. I have my doubts on how the second season could be anywhere close.

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agreed and i disagree with everything mhayden wrote.

I think the Binge watching did that to you mhayden.

I was incredibly invested in Cohle and Marty by the end of this run but I watched week by week.

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"green ears? green house!"

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I'm not a detective, but I have made some connections to problems for no apparent reason years down the line. About a month ago I woke up thinking about a C++ program solution that I was writing At A&M 10 years ago and I don't do any coding at all now. Sometimes things just click.

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I think the Binge watching did that to you mhayden.

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I'm really interested in this theory. I did not binge watch and had the same highly anticipated Sunday night 8-week event that a lot of others had. I was extremely satisfied with the ending and the show as a whole.

A friend of mine watched all 7 episodes this past Saturday and Sunday and is watching finale today so I'm very intrigued about the response.

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I've been to a lot of "backwoods" places that get cell phone reception, then you drive a little bit down the road and boom it's gone. Hell these days I'm more surprised when I don't have it way out in the middle of nowhere than when I do.

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truth

I realize I'm in the minority on my opinion of the show (just that I think it's very good, not game-changing).

But not being able to get cell phone reception when you're at some deranged cult serial killer's house being the reason you are "on your own" and then the reason to "split up" is pretty weak writing IMO. Just leave that bit out all together.

Also, did I miss the explanation as to why the cops showed up when they did?

Agree about the cell reception. Coverage has come so far these days that lack of service is very unpredictable.

That said, I agree that a more plausible reaction is to fall back until a connection can be made. Maybe you leave one guy to monitor while the other goes. Splitting up and attempting to use the phone at a place that could have multiple killers is a bit farfetched. The writer could have found another way to initiate a confrontation and split them up. Doesn't matter tho. Minor issue to me.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 3/10/2014 2:21p).]

H.E. I believe that was implied when Marty says, "everyone has a phone, now where is it?" (or something to that extent)

then at the end of the show, they show betty handcuffed to the stairs. it means more happened off screen than marty just running outside.

Cell phone reception bit is plausible as I've been many backwoods places and had it and can't get it in my office or my in-laws home at all.

They split up when searching the LeDoux compound back in '95. I thought it was great to see that happen again as it kinda signified that they've been apart for 10+ years but haven't missed a beat.

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Also, did I miss the explanation as to why the cops showed up when they did?

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Marty cracked the make flowers code and Busy Philipps's mom from Freaks and Geeks made the phone call

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H.E. I believe that was implied when Marty says, "everyone has a phone, now where is it?" (or something to that extent)

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Yeah, Marty found it

He found it but the one they showed him find didn't work. I was confused as well when the calvary showed up anyway.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 3/10/2014 2:22p).]

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Agree about the cell reception. Coverage has come so far these days that lack of service is very unpredictable.

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You must not have Sprint.

ATT

Data would be more predictably spotty. But I'll find decent phone service in the boonest of boons, then not have it somewhere random where you think you'd get it.

Cell phone thing is nitpicky, and I do like how they did split-up like they did in the earlier case.

I just thought it should have been written differently. No cell phone reception is why they went in without calling in the cavalry and the reason they split up, but we needed a way for the cavalry to arrive so... crazy pack-rat house had a "hidden phone" to get them there.

Just lazy writing IMO.

Again, not the point of the show (much like the green ears - green house connection that basically trumped the detective work they had done in the previous 5 episodes), just something I found annoying.

this show felt a lot like a Hemingway novel. not everything is explicitly shown onscreen. you have to infer a bit.

As far as Hart's daughter's drawings and set up with the dolls in her room, has anyone considered that it simply stemmed (in part) from her over hearing things about the Lange case, and seeing news stories about it?

At the time it was happening, it would have been a huge local story, with news updates every day and constant conversation between Marty and his wife about how it was progressing.

The kids were obviously in tune with what Marty did for a living, asking Cohl at dinner if he'd ever killed someone, etc.

Is seeing/hearing a story about a nude dead girl who had likely been sexually abused and it leading to the drawings/the toy set up that much of a stretch?

This format is the future of television. Or at least I hope it gains steam as a more common format. I want to see shows where the showrunner says "I have a story to tell and it's going to take me 25 episodes to get there", rather than "okay, fellow writers, we're up to season five now. So what are we going to do this year? Let's just start writing and then maybe we'll figure it out by the time we get to the end."

100% agree with that.

7, i agree 100%.

Ive posted it a few times but things get lost in threads like these

I believe that some of what we saw in the past may be different than how it actually happened. Marty and Cohle were telling their story to the cops. A story of events that happened in 1995 or 2002. Im sure when I think back to my college days things my have happened a little different than I remember them.

I think the scene with dolls is what Marty mind is adding to the story, reenforcing the fact that he needed to pay more attention to his children.

I could be WAY off

I for one dont need to have every question answered. No TV show or book has ever answered every questions. I dont know why people expect for them to start now.

They also didn't show us how she got from laughing on the floor of a bathroom with a 38 shoved in her mouth to handcuffed at the bottom banister in the main room. I presumed Marty got her to tell him where the phone was and then handcuffed her to the stairs before tearing off after Rust.