Entertainment
Sponsored by

**** Wheel of Time Amazon Series ****

185,631 Views | 1643 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by PatAg
Maximus_Meridius
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I believe what he's referring to with the "Power Ranger" quip is the notion, posed when Siuwan and Moiraine are in their little loveshack, that the Dragon doesn't necessarily have to be one person, but could be multiple. Exact line was "I heard a gleeman tell a tale of a many headed dragon".

As for Mat...I think the casting issues are causing the problem here, but I believe that story line is still savable. They'll just have to get creative (and they've showed zero hesitation with the creative license thus far).
schmendeler
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
How do you feel about grilled cheeses vs melts?
Tergdor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AtlAg05 said:



It's in Tear where Mat gets the memories when he goes through the door frame to visit the foxes or snakes. Is the dagger that causes the gaps in his memories that he wants filled?

I agree about the Waygate, it didn't make much sense to have Moiraine open it. Although maybe it was to allow Mat to be left. In the books it required just putting the leaf back, but I guess it makes sense.

The rebel white tower had the sisters swear to the amylrin seat, however the hell you spell that. I think.

What was the power ranger theory you mentioned?



You're right that that's where Mat gets his memories. But the Snakes and Foxes are a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme of things. With a show that would obviously want to rush to gambler Mat, making the dagger the tipping point would make sense.

The problem with the Oath Rod is that using it for anything other than the Three Oaths was considered incredibly taboo by the Aes Sedai, because of how overpowered it is and how easily it can be misused. I believe the previous Amyrlin before Siuan was deposed for simply mentioning using the Rod to have sisters swear fealty to the seat while at a dinner. Egwene using the Rod to bind the Tower together was arguably the most important non-Rand event to happen in the series.

The Power Ranger theory popped up during the meeting between Morraine and Siuan. Morraine says she heard from a gleeman that the Dragon could be multi-headed, meaning that all 5 could be the Dragon. It's absurd.

The show has tried so hard to give first-time viewers something to speculate about they've followed "show, don't tell" to a ridiculous extreme. By trying to keep up suspense they've turned the Aes Sedai into idiotic, bumbling fools that have no knowledge of the Dark One or the prophecies that they themselves recorded. They have skipped tons of plot points that could actually build the world and relationships the characters have just to keep the "mystery" alive.
Ag97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm trying to like this series because the books are some of my favorite, but the character development in most cases sucks.

Trying to explain Matt and Perrins character arc with Perrins wolf connection and Matts gambler/old tongue/prankster persona is non existent

Nyneave's character has been great and developed well. We know she is the mother hen of the Two Rivers people and she doesn't trust Aes Sedai. With all the screen time they have given her vs. the other Two Rivers characters, they could have explained Perrin and Matt a lot better.

Rand is OK but not really developed at all at this point. I wish they should show Lan teaching him Perrin and Matt how to fight on occasion.

Morraine is developed well and no complaints there.

Egwenes character development has been fine but but the actress has no personality. Just a bad choice.

No Elayne or visit to Camlynn. Them visiting and him falling into the courtyard and meeting Elayne would have been an easy 5 minute segment that would tie in well in the later episodes.

Biggest issue to me may just be they don't have the ability to stuff 800 pages of material into 150 pages of script.

I was hoping for Game of Thrones acting and production value but it's falling well short of that.
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
8 episodes clearly isn't enough. Hoping they will get 10 in future seasons.

I think some of your points about Mat will still appear later though. Many think he isn't fully healed. In the books, Moiraine temporarily helps him, but they find out later it's still a thing. He isn't truly healed until book 3, and that's when the quarterstaff duel takes place in TV.
TrustTheAwesomeness
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag97 said:


Biggest issue to me may just be they don't have the ability to stuff 800 pages of material into 150 pages of script.

I was hoping for Game of Thrones acting and production value but it's falling well short of that.

Agree completely. At least all of the books are written. I just feel like we're going to get a terribly stripped down version of the books.

I just think of it as a "different" turning of the wheel. Sort of like the Abrams Kelvin Star Trek timeline/movies...
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They need more episodes for sure. I don't mind the Camelyn bit not being in S1 since the story is already so condensed. We should get that next season anyway. The garden scene wouldn't take long, but they'd have to travel there, have the throne room scene, etc. I'm glad they stuck with the E5 and Aes Sedai so far. They can introduce others in the coming seasons.
Tergdor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I don't remember Morraine "healing" Mat, just her slowing the corruption until they could reach the Tower where she could get Siuan's help. Which is where they are right now.

But you're right, they needed 12 episodes. Skipping Caemlyn is going to be the narrative deathblow of this series.

The narrative structure could have been so simple. Have Morraine and Lan arrive at Emond's Field, where they notice the effects of Ta'veren (instead of that dumb "rumors of three Ta'veren in the Two Rivers," as if any normal person has any clue what that is or that they could recognize one). The Emond's Field 5 are a bunch of dumb hicks that have no knowledge of the outside world, use that! Have them ask questions, have Thom actually there to tell stories and give legends. Now you have exposition and world building without taking the viewer out of it. Have Lan teach them combat, because Trollocs are after them and the Dragon will have to be able to fight. Now you can address the Heron instead of just blue-balling book readers for the sake of playing the "who's the main character?" game. Now you've built more camaraderie and intrigue in probably 3 episodes than the series has now.

Then you reach Caemlyn later in the season, where you have Min to give more prophecies to intrigue the viewer and Loial, an exposition machine on the magic and history of that world. There you could decide to either follow the books and have the dreams lead them to the Eye of the World, or have them decide to use the Ways to reach the Tower faster to save Mat but get diverted by the Black Wind. Both are far preferable to the idiotic plan to put an unawakened Dragon in front of the Dark One, which is very out of character for Morraine.

It's a shame really.
Cepe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm struggling to enjoy this show, really. I was excitedly telling my family and friends it was coming because I thoroughly enjoyed the books. But it's been a let down and I don't even talk about it any more. I even don't get excited about the new episodes and just watch them whenever.

It's unfortunate but it hasn't been done very well so far IMO.
MaroonStain
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This episode was 'pfft...who cares' for me especially with the ESG theme (read my thoughts). Now I am glad balefire takes it toll early.
mpl35
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dagger causes the holes. But he also starts with memories of Manatheren and speaking the old tongue early on. Even before the dagger
Claude!
How long do you want to ignore this user?
mpl35 said:

Dagger causes the holes. But he also starts with memories of Manatheren and speaking the old tongue early on. Even before the dagger
The old blood runs deep in the Two Rivers.
Madmarttigan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Seems like this thread is gonna go heavy on the negative with book readers crapping on it. I can't remember the books but I don't think they have a choice in making massive changes due to the sheer volume of pages. It is going to have a lot of changes making the book readers mad.

I was just as grumpy with the Harry Potter movies but I have been able to turn my brain off and enjoy the movies still.

I think properly adapting wheel of time would be significantly harder than LOTR or GoT, which I think are the rare exceptions to the norm when it comes to bringing fantasy on screen with how well they did.

Since I don't remember the books I will consider myself a non reader and from my perspective I think the show is doing Ok thus far. It's not great, but I do think the episodes have gotten better despite not having many exciting moments.

I think it is about equal to where Witcher was mid season(although production value still feels less), but Witcher had a great ending so I'm hopeful they can really knock it out of the park with the last two episodes.
Formerly tv1113
schmendeler
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I read all the books but pretty much only remember the broad strokes. As such I've enjoyed the show quite a lot.

Brandon Sanderson seems pretty happy with it so far from what I've seen, and if he is, then I imagine most people getting butthurt over it can get over the changes they've made.
91_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yeah I read all the books 5 or 6 times as new ones came out and I forgot everything at least until Jordan died.
I can live with this so far. I do not remember enough specifics. I am not happy about Mat or egwenes casting choices though.
Francis Macomber
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Man, **** that episode.

I freaking hate television writers. I just wish they would all realize they're bad writers and will never be better than Robert Jordan so stop trying to improve his stuff.
AtlAg05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Based on the participation in the other thread, maybe only book readers are watching.
Independent George
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I started this post intending to rebuff all y'all's concerns but I agree; they are all valid.

Where have y'all been the last 2 years? Since the casting news and trickles of info leaking from the sets I have slowly peace with the changes made and now that I have, I have been able to enjoy the show. Appears some of you will not get there and that's ok.

Characters are true, the world so far is for the most part Jordan's world and those are the two biggest factors for me that I wanted out of an adaptation.
Independent George
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As for the show as a whole, I wont lie and say it's amazing but I do think you have to give it a chance. Episodes 1 and 5 for me fell a little flat but that's how I feel about some chapters in the books as well. Worldbuilding is not always fun.

Slow burn then huge payoff at Tarwins Gap and Eye of the World scenes. Slow burn and then Dumais Wells. Slow burn and the cleansing.

I hate to always compare to GOT but I'd argue that didn't take off till they lopped off Neds head at the end of S1.
Chase McGuire
How long do you want to ignore this user?
As a huge fan of the books, I've enjoyed the show so far. Yes, they've screwed some things up and changed a lot, but there are also some scenes and characters with which they've done well. I truly love seeing the world brought to life in any capacity and can stomach the parts I don't like so far. It probably helps that my girlfriend is a non-reader and is discovering WoT for the first time. She's loving it and can't wait for each new episode.

Hopefully the showrunners hear the criticism and make a few corrections in season 2 once the identity of the Dragon is revealed. I think the most annoying changes stem from trying to keep that mystery going. A couple extra episodes per season would help a lot, too.
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Forum Troll said:

Alanna with them tittays.



Tergdor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
schmendeler said:

Brandon Sanderson seems pretty happy with it so far from what I've seen, and if he is, then I imagine most people getting butthurt over it can get over the changes they've made.


Brandon Sanderson isn't a genius when it comes to screenplay. He thinks that faithful adaptations are impossible and you have to sacrifice a ton to get a show. This is the same guy who says he doesn't want an animated adaption of Stormlight Archive because animation is for kids and can't carry the weight and lore of his world, even after Arcane came out and proved him wrong.

Honestly, I think Sanderson is coping a little bit and trying to play middleman since he's the major representative of the franchise. I don't understand how he could have said episode 6 was his favorite especially after that Oath Rod scene, because he of all people should have known how big of a screw up that was.
Madmarttigan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It's funny because I think Arcane and Invincible(though horrific animation) provided more emotional firepower than 95% of live action I've seen recently.

If the story and the moment is good animated vs live action won't matter. Another example is spider-verse which I think is better than both MCU Spider-Man films as well.
Formerly tv1113
rich1232
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Faithful adaptations between mediums are difficult, and can be highly reliant on funds/episodes available.

At this point, I think the overall opinion is based on an individual's own experience from their book reading(s) and what they loved or enjoyed and whether that aligns with their head canon.

I've fortunately been able to ignore the majority of the character/plot changes to this point, and my gripes are more on the editing and scene transitions.

I'm pleasantly surprised at this point, it could've been a lot worse imo, and am cautiously optimistic about the crew learning making adjustments/improvements for season 2. Hopefully additional funding gives them that ability to do so.
PatAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Tergdor said:

schmendeler said:

Brandon Sanderson seems pretty happy with it so far from what I've seen, and if he is, then I imagine most people getting butthurt over it can get over the changes they've made.


Brandon Sanderson isn't a genius when it comes to screenplay. He thinks that faithful adaptations are impossible and you have to sacrifice a ton to get a show. This is the same guy who says he doesn't want an animated adaption of Stormlight Archive because animation is for kids and can't carry the weight and lore of his world, even after Arcane came out and proved him wrong.

Honestly, I think Sanderson is coping a little bit and trying to play middleman since he's the major representative of the franchise. I don't understand how he could have said episode 6 was his favorite especially after that Oath Rod scene, because he of all people should have known how big of a screw up that was.
You seem a little too emotionally attached to take your opinion seriously
Chipotlemonger
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Finally caught up on the last 2 episodes (5,6)!

I echo the sentiment that others have had here of "book reader, but it's been so long since I read them all, especially the first one, that I don't mind most of the plot changes."

I think Caemlyn can be handled just fine with a season 2 intro, along with Elayne, etc. I do agree that the "mystery" aspect that they've been stringing along is potentially detracting from what they could be building up.

Ships going missing in the west? Hell yes, that was great to hear.

Also, the Stepin stuff was good. Maybe a little heavy on time, but I like how they had that moment between him and Lan to introduce the Forsaken.

I understand why some book readers may hate on this, but I think it is naive to think we would get a completely full book to screen adaptation. Excited to see how they finish the season out. I think I had another thought while catching up on this thread but I can't recall it now.
Chase McGuire
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Random thought, but I think it's incredibly likely that we get Ishamael at the Eye of the World instead of Aginor and Balthamel. He's the only Forsaken mentioned by name so far, and they've obviously shown him in a few different visions throughout the season.
AgLiving06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm rereading the first book now, and honestly, it's pretty easy to see why they made the changes they did. The book is a very slow build. I just looked and I'm 375 pages in, which according to kindle is 50% of the way.

Outside of the Trollocs and Shadar Logoth, both of which were in the show, basically nothing has happened that would keep TV viewers entertained.

Sure you'd get more backstory into Perrin with the intro of Elyas, but they did a decent job of showing Perrin is somehow connected to the wolves. And we can have Rand/Mat/Thom on the boat and running from town to town avoiding Fades and what not, but none of that progresses the story.

So while it's not 100% faithful, and you'll get biases based on the director/writers, I've been happy with what I've seen so far.
Ag8556
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I have read the books a few times over the years. I think the series has done a good job so far representing the world that Jordan built. I do have to keep reminding myself that this adaptation is another "turning of the wheel" not a faithful adaptation of the age written about in the book series. This is allowing the showrunner to compress the material into fewer seasons with their overall storyboard.

We can see the deviations that have been made so far and are concerned about what story lines get cut in the future and the ability of the showrunner to bring it all together well in the end. Nobody wants this to fail to deliver at the end like Game of Thrones. I am trusting the fact that the source material is complete to take a lot of the risk out of completing a competent story arc with the show.

I think they will leave the Seanchan in. There is a lot of room to easily compress the Black Ajah search, Dragonsworn, Aiel, and split tower storylines. Jordan dedicated so many book pages to Aes Sedai culture and politics that won't be necessary on screen.
Hagen95
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ag8556 said:

I have read the books a few times over the years. I think the series has done a good job so far representing the world that Jordan built. I do have to keep reminding myself that this adaptation is another "turning of the wheel" not a faithful adaptation of the age written about in the book series. This is allowing the showrunner to compress the material into fewer seasons with their overall storyboard.

We can see the deviations that have been made so far and are concerned about what story lines get cut in the future and the ability of the showrunner to bring it all together well in the end. Nobody wants this to fail to deliver at the end like Game of Thrones. I am trusting the fact that the source material is complete to take a lot of the risk out of completing a competent story arc with the show.

I think they will leave the Seanchan in. There is a lot of room to easily compress the Black Ajah search, Dragonsworn, Aiel, and split tower storylines. Jordan dedicated so many book pages to Aes Sedai culture and politics that won't be necessary on screen.


That's a lot of skirt smoothing to cut out.
redbaron788
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Umm, did Moiraine actually Travel there? Or did I completely misunderstand what happened?
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
redbaron788 said:

Umm, did Moiraine actually Travel there? Or did I completely misunderstand what happened?

That's my understanding, but it looks like they used ter'angreal to do so since they both had one of those things on the wall.
mpl35
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It's like they took a vague concept of the WOT and made up their own story
Francis Macomber
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Game od Thrones was good because it stuck very closely to the source material. It became bad when they ran out of source material and the TV writers had to do the heavy lifting.

The fact that they are already diverging so much from the source materials makes it hard to trust that they will do a good job with this show going forward.

Every little change that they make means that down the road the story will veer further and further away from the source material. Kind of like the butterfly effect.
PatAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
bangobango said:

Game od Thrones was good because it stuck very closely to the source material. It became bad when they ran out of source material and the TV writers had to do the heavy lifting.

The fact that they are already diverging so much from the source materials makes it hard to trust that they will do a good job with this show going forward.

Every little change that they make means that down the road the story will veer further and further away from the source material. Kind of like the butterfly effect.
I also feel like Game of Thrones was written in a way that it translated to the screen better.
I am ok with merging storylines, or omitting some in some instances, for the sake of a better pacing and narrative to follow on screen. There is plenty of the books that just don't really add that much value to the show.
However, there are some things that have happened that I am not sure were good decisions, but they could be just to obscure that Rand is the dragon to the viewer that is fresh to this story.

My guess would be that we are going to finish the season, and wish that they had 3-4 more episodes to tell the story. I also imagine the director/writers feel the same way. Once we saw the first trailers, I had just decided to try to enjoy the show, and not expect anything great.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.